backyard garage way of getting drive shaft angles correct

[Butch11443]

Use a protractor level to check the angles with the car at it's normal level.
Butch

[bart78]

Do what you want with your truck. If I knew the answer to your question I would try to answer it. Some comments kinda go back to the thread on the younger generation. There are some people that will run others off because things are not done to their likeing. He did not ask how it would look without fenders and chopped. What he is wanting to do can be changed back if it needs to be. Thing like this thread are things that interest me and are why I have come on here to look. I enjoy reading this stuff to learn more about these cars. I grew up on both sides with these cars and love both.

[bugsiegel]

I went to sears today and bought a magnetic protractor.
I first placed it on the hub of the differential and then to the drive shaft but as you can see it hits the welded end of the drive shaft. So i used a long piece of wood to do this and contact the shaft far enough forward that it did not contact the welded end of the drive shaft. Not sure if the second photo shows this as clear as I'm trying to explain it.
In theory if I cold mark the contact points on the wood and then transfer the marks on the other end ( trans to drive shaft) I could accurately compare angles. There are a few issues.
First is the trans output shaft is not as beefy as the hub going into the differential so that would change the angels. That could be corrected by building up the diameter with some electrical tape so that they measured the same. Second issue is there's no room to do any of this with the cross member in the way. I am going to have to cut out the cross member anyway should I take my measurements after the cut? If I measure on top of the drive shaft at the rear, then I have to do it on the bottom up front. There's no room to put the protractor on top at the front end anyway.
Or should I be measuring the angles of the output shaft and the input shaft with out the drive shaft installed?

Also, It looks to me that there are no rear engine mounts and the cross member bears the weight of the trans and half the engine, is that right?
What I was going to do was put the truck on all four tires on top of cinder block platforms so that I'm working on it while it's sitting on the suspension at normal stance. That would give me a little more room below to work. I see one break line I have to contend with as well.

[flatjack9]

You'd never catch me under a vehicle supported by cinder blocks!

[Ronnie]

Here is what must be adhered to to get a vibration free shaft.Establish that first and then confirm pinion yoke angle.If center lines are both parallel then the end angles will be the same.

[bugsiegel]

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Is it safe to assume that these lines are parallel right now? I have no vibration now. If I measure the height of the engine as it is and secure it so it doesn't move while I remove the trans and then remount the new trans with my new Cornhusk bell housing, I should have the same parallel lines right?
then from there it's just a matter of measuring the length for the new drive shaft.
Is it that simple, have I been over thinking this? Of course I will recheck the lines as best I can while the drive shaft is out.
I know a guy who won't paint the ceiling of a bedroom while on a ladder, everyone is different. There are safe ways to do even dangerous things.

[4t8v8]

It is important to keep the center line on the trans output shaft as parallel as possible with the input shaft on the differential. I built my rear cross member (rear trans mount) a little low as it is easier to shim up than down. Remove the keeper on the "U" joint and use a socket that fits inside the yoke. This way you will get a correct reading with your angle finder.

[PeteVS]

Take the drive shaft out. Put the yoke into the transmission. Use your magnetic protractor on the vertical flange on the yoke and see what that angle is from dead vertical (or dead horizontal.) Then do the same level thing on the flange on the pinion. They should be the same angle (both flanges should be parallel to each other.) If the flanges are not parallel, you'll have to adjust the positioning of the rear (with shims or whatever?) to get them parallel. The angle of the driveshaft doesn't mean anything. It's just that the two flanges have to be parallel. If your engine / transmission centerline is dropping 3 degrees, your pinion centerline has to be "rising" 3 degrees.

[bugsiegel]

Someone sells a trans cross member kit to use with the t5 in the F1 after the factory cross member is cut to make space for the new trans. I don't remember who. Anyone know who sells it?
I don't have a welder.

[bugsiegel]

obviously I'm going to have to make this cross member.
I've been told that 1x2 tube will work.
anyone have a photo of one finished/installed?

[Mart]

I'd go heavier than 1x2.

Think of it as adding strength to the frame and supporting the trans as an afterthought, not just supporting the trans.

Mart.

[kp4150]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Take the drive shaft out. Put the yoke into the transmission. Use your magnetic protractor on the vertical flange on the yoke and see what that angle is from dead vertical (or dead horizontal.) Then do the same level thing on the flange on the pinion. They should be the same angle (both flanges should be parallel to each other.) If the flanges are not parallel, you'll have to adjust the positioning of the rear (with shims or whatever?) to get them parallel. The angle of the driveshaft doesn't mean anything. It's just that the two flanges have to be parallel. If your engine / transmission centerline is dropping 3 degrees, your pinion centerline has to be "rising" 3 degrees.

For practical purposes, that's about as good of a "how to" summary as you can get -- well done! Follow that instruction, Bugsiegel, and you'll get it right.

[36 flathead]

I put a t5 behind my 1950 f1. original trans was 3 degrees down. I used a speedway universal cross member, it works but i do have more frame flex then before. I will make a new cross member this winter. when you take out your cross member you will lose your master cyl mount. this job could be tough without a welder

[bugsiegel]

So this week I will be pulling the three speed.
When the new pressure plate goes on what should those bolt be torqued to?
and when the bell housing goes on what should that be torqued to?
and finally how much torque for the trans to bell housing?

[thirt4]

WOW! I just read through all the posts on this thread (hope that's sayin' it right) and began thinking what a bunch of wasted time.
WELL! Let me be the first to say that I honestly did not know CRAP about the driveshaft angles until now.
THANK YOU ALL SO VERY MUCH! REALLY!
With the pictures, like the one from Ronnie, I really got my mind aworkin'. I had no idea that there was so much to a simple looking driveshaft. I am headed to Sears in the morning to get me one of those $10 angle detectors. When I take my little 221 out and finally go with my '53 Merc flattie, and T5, I will need to know all this stuff and hopefully be smart enough to measure it out correctly myself.
Again, Thank you and keep pounding this information into us who always "thought" we were so damned smart... but really aren't as smart as we think.
Guess that is why there are businesses that do mechanic work for when "we" screw something up really bad.
And quite frankly, I for one am really glad you all kept on posting to this topic and weren't run off. I do not think I am able to get on the HAMB site. I 'spose it is an ok site too but I like this one and you guys. Oh yeah, I am not one of those "young" guys but still appreciate the information.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by thirt4

...And quite frankly, I for one am really glad you all kept on posting to this topic and weren't run off. I do not think I am able to get on the HAMB site. I 'spose it is an ok site too but I like this one and you guys. Oh yeah, I am not one of those "young" guys but still appreciate the information.

If you found out how to post here, you can do it on the HAMB. Same deal with the user name, pass word, etc. (Same software!) BIG difference on the HAMB is that there's so much more posting! Kind of easy to get lost there unless you're on almost constantly.

[TJ]

Check with Chassis Engineering in Iowa for crossmembers for the F-!. They make one for the C-4 and Turbo 350, so it's possible that they have one for the T-5. They make a good strong crossmember for the transmission. www.chassisengineeringinc.com

[bugsiegel]

Pulled the ( Original Made By Henry Ford) bench seat today and removed the trans floor cover. I'll go into some of the basic detail because there are guys in here like me with minimal experience that will be able to use this thread to do their own conversion as well. So the truck is on blocks and tied off on both ends to a tree and the garage. Can't move an inch in either direction.
disconnected the drive shaft from the rear and then it simply slides backwards off the transmission. Then there are no rear engine mounts on this truck so the other half of the engine weight transfers back through the transmission and finally to the transmission cross member. So the engine has to be stabilized and even lifted a tad to release the load on the transmission. From there it's just loosening the bolts holding it to the cross member and the bolts holding the bell housing to the next ring which is like another half of a bell housing( not sure what you call it). Then you wiggle the transmission reward and it will slide out. I didn't drop it down I found it easier to push it up into the cab.
After that I removed the half bell housing ( name) the pressure plate and with that comes the clutch. Flywheel remains on the engine. Then the pilot bushing in the center of the flywheel has to be pulled ( had to borrow a tool for that) and in goes the new one for the 14 spline input pilot on the transmission. Then check fit the new bell housing and trim for the starter cover. In one of the photos you will see the new clutch sitting on top of the old clutch. The new one is too small so an eleven inch clutch is being shipped out right away. I think it took me about two and a half hours to get this far.
I have some questions for the experienced. First is when mating the aluminum bell housing to the trans do I have to use any kind of lubrication or antiseize between the two pieces?
next is the new pilot is 1.34 inches from the tip to the beginning of the splines. I have 1.89 inches from the outer surface of the pilot bushing before I hit the inner wall of the cavity in the crank. Do I need to trim the pilot?
And lastly I need a transmission mount. My understanding is the GM mounts are pretty standard?

[PeteVS]

One more thing that wasn't mentioned about open driveshafts, and you won't have any problem if you have one shortened or made up by a professional. That is, the fittings at both ends of the driveshaft MUST be PARALLEL to each other. Reason is, if a shaft is driven at a constant speed and is connected to a second shaft by a U joint at an angle, the second shaft will speed up and then slow down as it goes through each revolution. Having a third shaft driven by the second through another U joint, the second U joint will cause a similar slow down speed up similar to the first, BUT, if the joints are parallel and the angles are the same, the slow down speed up effects will cancel each other out! Make sense?

PS: It looks like Ford wanted to make it easy to get at the transmission and clutch on the F1. Better than a '32!

[bugsiegel]

While I'm waiting on another clutch I decided to move forward and dry fit everything. This way I can cut the cross member, fab a new one, and also send out my drive shaft to be shortened.
I installed the pressure plate with out a clutch and I believe I could have skipped the pressure plate all together since the half bell housing mounts directly to the block. Then I installed the half bell housing back on the block.
I installed the Cornhusker bell housing on the trans so tomorrow after I cut the cross member I will slip the trans into the pilot bushing and support the trans with a jack. Once I have the angles right I will measure for the cross member and for the drive shaft length. I made a simple jig to help mark the cut lines on the cross member.
I'll score the lines with a cut wheel on the grinder and then I may make the cuts with a sawzall or just use the grinder.