The Ford Barn

Chris in WNC · 10-06-2010, 04:32 PM

finally got the passenger side tail lamp installed on our 31 Coupe last month. carriage bolts securing the bracket to the fender came from Bratton's and have very large flat heads.

I noticed the bolts on the drivers side have much smaller heads, slightly smaller than modern carriage bolts. this is a low-mileage MARC of Originality car and I have no reason to believe the bolts were ever changed. They have the correct thick square nuts.

checked our 31 Town Sedan, restored in the late 80s. it has small head bolts on the driver's side and large flat headed ones on the passenger side.
when I get a chance, I will check another local unrestored 31 and see what is on it.

a local friend who has been judging fine point for 25 years told me the larger heads were correct. today I looked in the Judging Standards and found no mention of bolts for this assembly.

I am going to use small head bolts on both sides of both cars, because I like the way they look better. but I'm a curious sort of guy, and wonder what do these bolt heads look like on YOUR unrestored original car?

peters180a/170b · 10-06-2010, 05:34 PM

They changed from the lg. heads to the smaller heads i think somewhere in 31??? not sure without looking it up.

henry494 · 10-06-2010, 06:19 PM

Chris,

Let me add a little mud to the picture. Your question got me to thinking. I recall seeing some smaller head carriage bolts on a tail lamp bracket on an unrestored '31 slant window sedan, but I don't recall when or where. (Scott M., can you check yours?) So, I looked through a few parts books out of curiosity.

In the October 1930, February 1931, and July 1931 Ford Parts Price List books, I did not find the bolt listed for the "Rear Lamp Bracket," which is part number 13471-B. The nuts and lockwashers were listed, 22164-S-2, and 22151, respectively.

I then went back to the June 1930 book and found the bolt listed as 20606-S-3, which is a 1/4-20 x 9/16 special head carriage. The S-3 finish is defined as, Raven finish and black paint, head only. No definition is given for the "special head," although another location for a "special head carriage" is the rear splash apron to frame bolt, which is known to be a large head.

I checked the two prior parts books, March 1930 and December 1929, and neither one of them included the finish codes.

So, this certainly did not answer your question at all. But since your question had my curiosiy aroused and I spent the time in the parts books, I thought I would share what I found. Not a loss for me, as I just add this to my notes for my '30 Coupe restoration (Someday) which will save a few minutes down the road.

Maybe someone better versed int he parts books like Vince, Doug, Marco, will chime in and add an explanation.

I included a photo of the carriage polts on our unrestored '29 Fordor. It has the large head carriage bolts as described inthe parts books. The heads measure just a hair over 3/4", at .753.

Dave Lopes

Chris in WNC · 10-06-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peters180a/170b

They changed from the lg. heads to the smaller heads i think somewhere in 31??? not sure without looking it up.

early in '31 perhaps? both our cars are flat firewall, March & April engine #s.

HoarseWhisperer · 10-06-2010, 07:46 PM

From April - June 1931 engine#, flat firewall. (Canadian)

Heads measure 5/8". Appear slightly smaller than Daves?

mot · 10-06-2010, 10:49 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

its in the JS and very hard to find
it will be easier in the revised section
look on page 13-5 and 13-6
its the last item on 13-5 and the text is carried over on 13-6 under the picture of the front splash shield
i felt it should have been under rear tail lamp in the lamp section
tom

Tudortomnz · 10-06-2010, 11:55 PM

Ones on my '29 Tudor are same as photo 'HoarseWhisperer', 5/8" across but with hex. nuts as Henry494. It is Canadian car.

Scott NY · 10-07-2010, 06:09 AM

Dave
I Believe my 31 S/W town Sedan has the small heads. I will verify when I retur from Hershey....Scott M

henry494 · 10-07-2010, 06:17 PM

Scott - Thanks. Hope you're having a blast at Hershey.

MOT - Thanks for the JS info. I had reviewed Area 18 thoroughly before going through the parts books as described in my first post to Chris. In the Area 18 prelude of items included, "mounting bar, arms or brackets," are listed, so that's why I didn't think to review any other area. It seems logical that Chris's question should have been answered in Area 18, not Area 15 ! As we all have discussed and debated at length before, the book isn't perfect.

Dave Lopes

10-06-2010, 04:32 PM	#1
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,463	Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? finally got the passenger side tail lamp installed on our 31 Coupe last month. carriage bolts securing the bracket to the fender came from Bratton's and have very large flat heads. I noticed the bolts on the drivers side have much smaller heads, slightly smaller than modern carriage bolts. this is a low-mileage MARC of Originality car and I have no reason to believe the bolts were ever changed. They have the correct thick square nuts. checked our 31 Town Sedan, restored in the late 80s. it has small head bolts on the driver's side and large flat headed ones on the passenger side. when I get a chance, I will check another local unrestored 31 and see what is on it. a local friend who has been judging fine point for 25 years told me the larger heads were correct. today I looked in the Judging Standards and found no mention of bolts for this assembly. I am going to use small head bolts on both sides of both cars, because I like the way they look better. but I'm a curious sort of guy, and wonder what do these bolt heads look like on YOUR unrestored original car?

10-06-2010, 05:34 PM	#2
peters180a/170b Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Putnam Valley N.Y. Posts: 2,151	Re: Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? They changed from the lg. heads to the smaller heads i think somewhere in 31??? not sure without looking it up.

10-06-2010, 10:49 PM	#6
mot Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sacramento Ca Posts: 1,179	Re: Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) its in the JS and very hard to find it will be easier in the revised section look on page 13-5 and 13-6 its the last item on 13-5 and the text is carried over on 13-6 under the picture of the front splash shield i felt it should have been under rear tail lamp in the lamp section tom

10-06-2010, 11:55 PM	#7
Tudortomnz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canterbury, New Zealand Posts: 1,242	Re: Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? Ones on my '29 Tudor are same as photo 'HoarseWhisperer', 5/8" across but with hex. nuts as Henry494. It is Canadian car.

10-07-2010, 06:09 AM	#8
Scott NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manlius New York Posts: 169	Re: Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? Dave I Believe my 31 S/W town Sedan has the small heads. I will verify when I retur from Hershey....Scott M

10-07-2010, 06:17 PM	#9
henry494 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Simi Valley, California Posts: 193	Re: Unrestored Original Cars- Tail lamp bracket bolts ? Scott - Thanks. Hope you're having a blast at Hershey. MOT - Thanks for the JS info. I had reviewed Area 18 thoroughly before going through the parts books as described in my first post to Chris. In the Area 18 prelude of items included, "mounting bar, arms or brackets," are listed, so that's why I didn't think to review any other area. It seems logical that Chris's question should have been answered in Area 18, not Area 15 ! As we all have discussed and debated at length before, the book isn't perfect. Dave Lopes