The Ford Barn

Bruce Adams · 01-03-2012, 06:07 PM

Hi,
During last week's ZDDP thread I said I would query Shell's Chemists about ZDDP content in Shell Rotella T 15 W-40 motor oil.
The original post is now back to oblivion so I renewed their answer here.

"There is approximate 1200 parts per million ZDDP in Rotella T 15W-40,
which is 50% higher than is allowed in Starburst motor oils (API
SN/GF-5). Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

Richard Moore"

from Shell Oil's answer to "Questions to our Chemists"

ryan1929 · 01-03-2012, 06:27 PM

Perfect...I support shell forever..I also like there premium gas its ethenhol free...

gweilbaker · 01-03-2012, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan1929

Perfect...I support shell forever..I also like there premium gas its ethenhol free...

Not around here, it contains 10%, Milcago AKA Chiwaukee. Actually the same tanker delivers Shell, Thorton's, Marathon so it makes you wonder who zooming who. What I would like to know why one corner the stations are at $3.07.9 and the next they are at $3.49.9.

GW

HoarseWhisperer · 01-03-2012, 06:53 PM

True. In southern Ontario, Shell Premium is ethanol free.

Traveling in the states, it's challenging to find anymore, despite what http://pure-gas.org/ says.

Ross/Kzoo · 01-03-2012, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

Hi,
"There is approximate 1200 parts per million ZDDP in Rotella T 15W-40,
which is 50% higher than is allowed in Starburst motor oils (API
SN/GF-5). Thank you for your interest in Shell products.

What is this Starburst motor oils that he refers to? Is it "allowed" or permitted/limited?

Bruce Adams · 01-03-2012, 07:26 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Starburst is the symbol on most oil containers indicating American Petroleum Institute "For Gasoline Engines" certification.

Diesel and racing oils apparently do not have to meet this standard, which in our case permits ZDDP's that some of us feel is an important additive.

Old182 · 01-03-2012, 07:33 PM

The "Starburst" refers to engine oils that meet or exceed API (American Petroleum Institute) specifications. They include all the majors - just look at the bottle. API specs demand that the oil contain the minimum concentration of certain additives to meet OEM engine specifications for new cars. The auto companies can then rely on the oil companies who perform (and pass) the tests to provide oils that will comply with their criteria for engine warranty. There are other oils out there that do a good job, but because they don't have to comply with API, can change their formulations from batch to batch. For example, a racing oil may contain extra ZDDP for antiwear/extreme pressure conditions, but may contain no antioxidant, dispersant, or corrosion inhibitor which race cars don't need but you and I do. If you stick with API Starburst oils, you will always get a fully-formulated oil for everyday driving - just like the OEMs require. API is working through the alphabet for spark iginition or service ("S" oils) and for compression ignition (diesel or commercial) ("C" oils). If you can find SG/SH oil, it reportedly contains 1200 ppm ZDDP, SJ/SL were set to 1000 ppm, SM is 600-800 ppm. P.S. Ya still don't need ZDDP in a Model A engine.

wildwilly · 01-03-2012, 08:08 PM

Old182 sounds like he is slick on his oil's. LOL, All good info to know.

700rpm · 01-03-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

'I hate them queries'

Peter Falk as Detective Sam Spade in 'Murder By Death'

I love that! Wasn't Falk somethin'?

CarlG · 01-03-2012, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan1929

Perfect...their (Shell) premium gas its ethenhol free...

Maybe in Alberta, but not on this side of the border!

CarlG · 01-03-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

True. In southern Ontario, Shell Premium is ethanol free.

Traveling in the states, it's challenging to find anymore, despite what http://pure-gas.org/ says.

Only one station in all of Alaska sells "real" gasoline, it's an independent Tesoro branded station. The plus side is that I drive past it twice a day on my way to and from work!

Mikeinnj · 01-03-2012, 10:24 PM

ZDDP has it's usefulness in flat tappet cam engines using high valve spring pressures as well as in some turbocharged applications and also in race engines, and truck motors.

Most car companies started using roller cams in their engines in the 1990's and they do not create enough pressure on the cam lobes to require the cushioning effect that additives like ZDDP provided, factored with the use of steel camshaft's. The major oil manufacturers then reduced the additive levels to meet NEW car requirements,l.e. lower levels of that good old zinc and phosphorus found in ZDDP.

Here is a good read on the subject explaining why engines that have very light valve spring loads on their camshafts, (like the Model A Ford) , do not require any additives to their oil. Enjoy !

http://www.baileycar.com/oil_additives_html.htm

Old182 · 01-04-2012, 04:22 PM

Good article, Mike. Check out the attached link and see what the Federal Trade Commission thinks of Slick 50 (hint: the only thing slick about it are the ads). http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/12/bluecora.do.htm. Split Fire spark plugs are in the same category - crap. P.S. it is the phosphorous in ZDDP that poisons the noble metals in catalytic converters, not the zinc.

01-03-2012, 06:07 PM	#1
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Shell Responds to my ZDDP query Hi, During last week's ZDDP thread I said I would query Shell's Chemists about ZDDP content in Shell Rotella T 15 W-40 motor oil. The original post is now back to oblivion so I renewed their answer here. "There is approximate 1200 parts per million ZDDP in Rotella T 15W-40, which is 50% higher than is allowed in Starburst motor oils (API SN/GF-5). Thank you for your interest in Shell products. Richard Moore" from Shell Oil's answer to "Questions to our Chemists"

01-03-2012, 06:27 PM	#2
ryan1929 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Edmonton Ab Posts: 247	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query Perfect...I support shell forever..I also like there premium gas its ethenhol free...

01-03-2012, 06:53 PM	#4
HoarseWhisperer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,470	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query True. In southern Ontario, Shell Premium is ethanol free. Traveling in the states, it's challenging to find anymore, despite what http://pure-gas.org/ says. __________________ I know a lot of things; I just can't remember them all. 1928 CCPU 82-A 1931 Roadster 40-B Dlx (Canadian)

01-03-2012, 07:26 PM	#6
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Starburst is the symbol on most oil containers indicating American Petroleum Institute "For Gasoline Engines" certification. Diesel and racing oils apparently do not have to meet this standard, which in our case permits ZDDP's that some of us feel is an important additive.

01-03-2012, 07:33 PM	#7
Old182 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 222	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query The "Starburst" refers to engine oils that meet or exceed API (American Petroleum Institute) specifications. They include all the majors - just look at the bottle. API specs demand that the oil contain the minimum concentration of certain additives to meet OEM engine specifications for new cars. The auto companies can then rely on the oil companies who perform (and pass) the tests to provide oils that will comply with their criteria for engine warranty. There are other oils out there that do a good job, but because they don't have to comply with API, can change their formulations from batch to batch. For example, a racing oil may contain extra ZDDP for antiwear/extreme pressure conditions, but may contain no antioxidant, dispersant, or corrosion inhibitor which race cars don't need but you and I do. If you stick with API Starburst oils, you will always get a fully-formulated oil for everyday driving - just like the OEMs require. API is working through the alphabet for spark iginition or service ("S" oils) and for compression ignition (diesel or commercial) ("C" oils). If you can find SG/SH oil, it reportedly contains 1200 ppm ZDDP, SJ/SL were set to 1000 ppm, SM is 600-800 ppm. P.S. Ya still don't need ZDDP in a Model A engine.

01-03-2012, 08:08 PM	#8
wildwilly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Easley, SC Posts: 109	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query Old182 sounds like he is slick on his oil's. LOL, All good info to know.

01-03-2012, 10:24 PM	#12
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query ZDDP has it's usefulness in flat tappet cam engines using high valve spring pressures as well as in some turbocharged applications and also in race engines, and truck motors. Most car companies started using roller cams in their engines in the 1990's and they do not create enough pressure on the cam lobes to require the cushioning effect that additives like ZDDP provided, factored with the use of steel camshaft's. The major oil manufacturers then reduced the additive levels to meet NEW car requirements,l.e. lower levels of that good old zinc and phosphorus found in ZDDP. Here is a good read on the subject explaining why engines that have very light valve spring loads on their camshafts, (like the Model A Ford) , do not require any additives to their oil. Enjoy ! http://www.baileycar.com/oil_additives_html.htm

01-04-2012, 04:22 PM	#13
Old182 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 222	Re: Shell Responds to my ZDDP query Good article, Mike. Check out the attached link and see what the Federal Trade Commission thinks of Slick 50 (hint: the only thing slick about it are the ads). http://www.ftc.gov/os/1997/12/bluecora.do.htm. Split Fire spark plugs are in the same category - crap. P.S. it is the phosphorous in ZDDP that poisons the noble metals in catalytic converters, not the zinc.