Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34

[deuce_roadster]

As TerryOH said, Check the battery first, maybe it has a weak cell. I ALWAYS begin any electrical trouble shooting at the battery and cables and follow it out from there. Remember, the ground side of the circuit is just as important as the hot side.

[34 fordor owner]

Did some voltage checking today.
From the battery: 6.4 volts
To the ignition switch: 6.4volts
Ignition switch to resistor: 4.9 volts
Resistor to coil 2.2volts
(Big drops here so still have the hot wire temporarily in place)
Battery to starter switch:6.4volts
Starter switch to starter:3.4 volts
Another drop here which would be the cause to my slow starting issue. I’m guessing I would need about 6 volts to the starter to. So what’s the best way to clean the starter switch connections, or can I even clean up these connections? To see if I can fix the issue that way?

[Bob C]

Check the voltage at the battery POST as you are cranking the engine. I it drops to 3.4 volts then you probably have a weak battery or high current draw from the starter.

[Flathead Fever]

I was a fleet mechanic for 30-years. Like others have said check the available voltage at the battery both with it "not cranking" and while it's cranking. If it's okay the next thing is your voltage is dropping too much at the coil. You want to check the voltage at the distributor with the primary wire to the coil "disconnected". Unless you know that the points are "both open", it easier to just disconnect the wire and check the voltage. When the points are opening and closing you will get the average voltage, not the available voltage to the coil, it's just easier to disconnect the wire and then check the voltage. You should have close to the battery voltage here when you "have bypassed" the resistor. You might have other problems too, but I would start with that.

[34 fordor owner]

The battery only drops from 6.4 to 5.3 when starting not a huge drop.

[koates]

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I have had several 1934 Fords & a sedan like yours. I keep it in good running order. Returned home after a drive and came back 4 days later and cranked it over good but no fire only the odd backfire. Check everything over the next few hours and no go. Finally decided to replace the condenser which was only 12 months old. Fitted a non genuine one on the outside of the distributor and the engine started right up. Remove the original condenser first. When operating the floor starter switch stomp down hard on it so that the contacts make a good circuit. Just soft pushing it will cause a poor contact and slow cranking. They can be pulled apart and clean (file) the contacts. New ones are still around on ebay or 3rd generation auto has them. Regards, Kevin.

[34 fordor owner]

Originally Posted by koates

I have had several 1934 Fords & a sedan like yours. I keep it in good running order. Returned home after a drive and came back 4 days later and cranked it over good but no fire only the odd backfire. Check everything over the next few hours and no go. Finally decided to replace the condenser which was only 12 months old. Fitted a non genuine one on the outside of the distributor and the engine started right up. Remove the original condenser first. When operating the floor starter switch stomp down hard on it so that the contacts make a good circuit. Just soft pushing it will cause a poor contact and slow cranking. They can be pulled apart and clean (file) the contacts. New ones are still around on ebay or 3rd generation auto has them. Regards, Kevin.

That’s what I tried to do before. I have a Tubman condenser but I couldn’t find a successful way to mount and connect it. Do you have any suggestions on that? Or what condenser did you use on the outside of the distributor?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 34 fordor owner

That’s what I tried to do before. I have a Tubman condenser but I couldn’t find a successful way to mount and connect it. Do you have any suggestions on that? Or what condenser did you use on the outside of the distributor?

I'm an "8BA guy", so I don't have a lot of experience with the early "front mount" distributors. I do know many have done it. I do have one picture of one of my condensers mounted on a "Rabbit-Ear" distributor. It's not exactly the same, but close. I think all you would have to do is mount the condenser with the "P"-clamp on one of the coil mounting bolts and run a wire to the terminal on the distributor. If you need a longer lead, let me know and I'll have one made up and sent out.

"glennpm" is also correct in saying that it can really be mounted just about anywhere as long as the circuit is correct.

[Fritz]

Thanks for posting the readings. There is a drop either in your ignition switch or the wire from the switch to the resistor. And a drop in the starter solenoid or the cable to the starter. Feel that cable while cranking to see if it gets warm. If it’s warm, time for new 00 cables. Your starter definitely needs all 6.4 volts and will crank nice and fast with them, and leave enough leftover for the ignition on startup.

I’m sure you can find info here too on taking apart your solenoid and cleaning the contacts.

[glennpm]

The condensor can be mounted remotely from the distributor. Make sure the case is grounded well and connect the wire to the distributor with 16 gauge wire. I run a spare on top of my generator, 59AB engine, and it works fine there.


1 gauge for starter wire to starter was Ford standard 1(0) or 2(00) is a good upgrade 3(000) is overkill.


https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...re-d_1429.html

[glennpm]

Here's my generator mount. I slip the female connector alongside of the male and not connected. I can easily plug this spare in if required.

[koates]

The condenser which glennpm has used I think is a Mallory 400 which is the same type I use mounted on one of the three coil mounting screws with the orange condenser wire going to a screw on the original coil where the original condenser was connected with a small screw. The Mallory 400 is a good mid range capacity at .28 mfd. One thing to be very careful of with condensers which have a wire (not a terminal) is not to pull or place any tension on that wire because it can cause a disconnection inside the case of the condenser. Shop around a bit for a Mallory 400 because some vendors have them priced high and some much cheaper at about $15.00. Regards, Kevin.

[glennpm]

Yes, it is a Mallory 400 and it is working quite well. I also have a Mallory mounted on my crab as well.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COMRGE...fed_asin_title


To make it easier to change the condensor mounted on the crab, I have a stud screwed in with some Locktite. Much easier to change on the car instead of loosing a screw.

[34 fordor owner]

I might give this a shot again to see if I can get it working. I read through a old forum I had about this same thing and here’s my thinking: I can mount the condenser on one of the coil screws(what I did the past time) and have a screw come through the condenser tunnel and secure it with a nut then put the lead on the screw and again secure it with a nut. That should be a correct circuit I’m thinking. worth a shot. If that falls through I’ll keep wrestling the old style condensers.

[koates]

Yes thats how I have my Mallory 400 mounted and connected to my original 34 Ford distributor. Be careful not to pull on the condenser wire as I have one disconnect inside the case and cause problems. I have fitted quite a few Mallory 400 condensors to vintage cars and even a couple of motor cycles and all have been good. New old stock condensors are a bad risk because most are faulty. I test all the Mallory 400 on my old original tester before fitting them and they are always up to standard. At .28 mfd they are a better match for the original Ford V8 coils which required .36 mfd according to original Ford specs. Other new condensors are rated at about .22 mfd. which match modern canister type ignition coils. My favourite Fords are the 1934 V8. Regards, Kevin.

[Lawrie]

You can fit up on of the Tubman condensers and make it look quite nice.
this is on my 33 spare engine.(59A)
Once fitted they are there for the duration.
Lawrie

[Lawrie]

some close up pics of the way its connected and mounted.
Lawrie

[34 fordor owner]

Okay, while I’m waiting on some things to come in I’ve been looking at my slow starter to trouble shoot the slow turn over in the mean time. So I got the starter switch removed and got the points cleaned up on that and then checked voltages. From the starter switch to starter wire (disconnected) I’m getting 6.2 volts. When I hook the cable to the starter and check I only get 3.8-4 volts with the starter engaged. Could this be a starter ground issue? How does the starter ground to the engine?

[mcgarrett]

Originally Posted by 34 fordor owner

Okay, while I’m waiting on some things to come in I’ve been looking at my slow starter to trouble shoot the slow turn over in the mean time. So I got the starter switch removed and got the points cleaned up on that and then checked voltages. From the starter switch to starter wire (disconnected) I’m getting 6.2 volts. When I hook the cable to the starter and check I only get 3.8-4 volts with the starter engaged. Could this be a starter ground issue? How does the starter ground to the engine?

Is the starter cable from the solenoid to the starter good? I had a similar problem and didn't have good voltage from the battery to the starter, but the cable "appeared" to be in good shape. I checked the cable for continuity and voltage and it showed a lot of resistance. Turns out I cut away all the outer skin of the cable and found it was green inside from heavy corrosion. Replaced the cable and that solved the problem.

[cas3]

It grounds on the oil pan where it bolts up. this area must be clean and paint free. Sometime later Ford put an extra bracket off the top bolt to oil pan. These are good, extra support and better ground. Got one on your engine?