The Ford Barn

Chuck Dempsey · 03-02-2024, 05:38 PM

I know this is a long shot, but my Dad bought a horn, and a light switch rod, from JC Whitney around 1970. The horn was a 'single wire' type, so he set up a simple switch on the steering column to run power to it when needed. I'd like to buy a new Snyders horn, with the two wires, and use the BUTTON on the 1970 light switch rod - IF IT WAS EVER SET UP TO ACTUALLY WORK. The wiring harness 'ground' wire does NOT actually ground when I hold the button down. So I would like to try and take the rod apart and repair it, IF IT WAS EVER SET UP TO ACTUALLY WORK. I don't recall the wording of the original description from the cataloged, so if anyone is actually using one, I'd sure like to know....

Thanks!

Herb Concord Ca · 03-02-2024, 07:41 PM

try using a multimeter set to resistance. one probe on the end metal tab on the horn rod and the other probe on ground. you should have an open, no reading on the meter. Pressing the horn button should show close to zero ohms. if you have this response, the horn rod and button works.
The one wire JC Whitney horn can be modified to work like a Model A horn by taking the cover off and carefully looking for the varnished coated wire connected to the horn frame, if you can find this connection cut the wire from the horn frame and that wire becomes your second horn wire.
Good luck

Chuck Dempsey · 03-02-2024, 09:28 PM

Herb, thanks. I'll take a look at that.

Joe K · 03-02-2024, 09:54 PM

The horn is probably the commonly seen "Hutchins" pattern. One of the three I have has a chrome bell, a blue (go figure) back body, and a single wire coming out through a hole with a rubber grommet on it to prevent shorting. It's a 12V horn IIRC - the primary sales market of JC Whitney in the 1970s.

On mine if its like yours the "ground connection" occurs through the "body" of the horn. You need a nice tight bolt arrangement where its attached to a piece of your car which hopefully is equally well connected to the car frame for continuous effective grounding.

Which is the way these Hutchins horns were sold to be used on 12V "modern" cars.

The Model A is neither 12V (usually) nor "modern" (usually.)

You're looking at a hybrid possibility. The problem you will have is the usual center of the steering column rod/pushbutton works on the Model A horn by providing the ground. The Model A horn is "live" all the time but works when you provide the ground by pressing the pushbutton. (I.e. current flow is "up" the button rod via the internal wire, and the momentary switch connecting to rod exterior/ground is "under" the pushbutton.

It is possible to open the Hutchins horn, and trace out the wires. You need to "lift" the horn electrical ground and connect/extend this to yield TWO wires.

At the link below you can see the Model A horn wiring. It has (IIRC) a "yellow" wire which is the "hot" wiring going to the horn. The "yellow/green" wiring leaves the horn and connects to the horn button/rod. This is the Model A Ford current path.

https://lesmodela.files.wordpress.co...ng-diagram.pdf

And below is a previous board discussion/disassembly of the Hutchins horn. Those who HAVE opened the horn and took pix. No wiring diagram but the exact subject of ground IS discussed.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ns+horn+wiring

Between these two you probably have enough information to make something that works.

OR you could provide the usual "farmer fix" and mount a surface mounted pushbutton switch above your gas tank on the interior moulding - which is how I found my truck (Avatar) when I bought it in 1973. You're not the first to encounter this problem.

Joe K

Joe K · 03-03-2024, 08:59 AM

Amazing what a night's sleep can do.

You can use the horn without modification if you provide a "relay" which is normally open but on energization goes "closed."

The relay acts as intermediary and takes the place of the Model A horn. You press your horn button, it completes the circuit and energizes the relay (which is "live"), which in turn completes its circuit to feed current to the JC Whitney horn.

I'm looking forward to tonight's bed-rest to uncover more truths.

https://www.famousscientists.org/7-g...ade-in-dreams/

Joe K

nkaminar · 03-03-2024, 09:15 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

To get the horn button to work, remove the C clip at the bottom after compressing the spring and remove the "spider" and spring. The horn rod should slide up. They should be tabs at the top that can be bent straight to take the button apart. If you can get the horn rod out of the steering column that is best. If you have closed car you may have to loosen the steering column to move the wheel down to remove the rod.

First check the conductivity of the wire in the center with an ohm meter. If no conductivity then you may have to buy a new horn rod and switch with the same length. If the conductivity of the wire is good then clean up the contact on the bottom of the horn button. Check conductivity between the outside diameter of the horn rod and the wire when the horn is pressed. If that is good, re assemble and put everything back together. You can compress the spring in a vice and tie it in the compressed position with 4 loops of strong string to make installation easier.

Chuck Dempsey · 03-03-2024, 01:27 PM

Thanks all. You have given me plenty to look at. With a little luck, I save money on new horn and light switch rod.....

ronn · 03-03-2024, 05:53 PM

I'm looking forward to tonight's bed-rest to uncover more truths.

lol, the computer is always running, even when we dont realize it!

Chuck Dempsey · 03-04-2024, 08:14 AM

Ronn, any luck? Cold fusion, maybe?

Chuck Dempsey · 05-14-2024, 01:23 PM

Another question - My 1970 JC Whitney horn rod fits flatly into the steering wheel recess. I wonder if the rod is long enough to reach the 'contact' in the switch, in order to create the 'ground' when needed. Should the rod have a bit of 'spring' in it as you push down on the horn button? Not just the button itself, but the entire rod? I see the contact in the switch is spring-loaded.....

Thanks

Chuck Dempsey · 05-14-2024, 03:09 PM

After watching YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaFC50UM3nY , I see I am missing a spring and C-Clamp that holds the rod securely into the steering wheel recess. (I've always been able to just pull the rod out of the steering column). So I still think my rod might be too short, but don't see any way to test it.... I know the button doesn't 'ground' the horn wire, but is the button broken, or the rod just too short? Any suggestions?

PS-I did finally get my horn to NOT ground itself on the headlamp bar, so I need to get the rod horn button working....

nkaminar · 05-14-2024, 05:26 PM

Pull the light switch down after un clipping it. Use some modeling clay on the bottom of the horn rod. Put the light switch back in and re clip it. Push down on the horn rod. Take the light switch back out. If the horn rod is the right length the modeling clay will be squished flat. If not squished flat, the horn rod is too short.

To put the spring in, close it shut in a vice and then use some strong string or twine to tie it up in 4 places. After putting the spring back in, cut the string and pull it out of the spring with some pliers.

Chuck Dempsey · 05-14-2024, 06:00 PM

Slick! I'll see what I can do... (need to buy the spring and clip)

Chuck Dempsey · 05-16-2024, 03:10 PM

I build up the horn contact in the switch so the rod now presses against it. But no luck on getting a ground to work. So I've taken the horn/light rod out of the steering column. The tabs holding the button assembly are TIGHT. I can't budge them at all. To further test the button, I've held a live wire to the very tip of the rod, below the insulation. I've pushed the button, and tried to 'ground' the rod shaft against a known engine grounding spot. I get no spark. (I assume once assembled, the C-clip and spring do the grounding against the steering column). So can I assume my rod is bad, and barring a way to get the button loose to possibly repair it, I need a new rod? Also, any ideas on getting the tabs free?

As always, thanks.....

Chuck Dempsey · 05-16-2024, 04:43 PM

I spoke too soon.... I did get the horn button apart, and it was too rusty to make good contact. I sanded it down and tested it, so the button is now working. I'd like to bend the tabs down a bit more, but I'm good with what I have for now. So the next question is - does the C_Clamp and spring ground the rod to the steering column? I don't see anything else, except maybe just the rod rubbing against the inside of the column, which doesn't sound to secure....

Thanks!

03-02-2024, 05:38 PM	#1
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	JC Whitney 1970 era horn info I know this is a long shot, but my Dad bought a horn, and a light switch rod, from JC Whitney around 1970. The horn was a 'single wire' type, so he set up a simple switch on the steering column to run power to it when needed. I'd like to buy a new Snyders horn, with the two wires, and use the BUTTON on the 1970 light switch rod - IF IT WAS EVER SET UP TO ACTUALLY WORK. The wiring harness 'ground' wire does NOT actually ground when I hold the button down. So I would like to try and take the rod apart and repair it, IF IT WAS EVER SET UP TO ACTUALLY WORK. I don't recall the wording of the original description from the cataloged, so if anyone is actually using one, I'd sure like to know.... Thanks!

03-02-2024, 07:41 PM	#2
Herb Concord Ca Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Concord CA Posts: 650	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info try using a multimeter set to resistance. one probe on the end metal tab on the horn rod and the other probe on ground. you should have an open, no reading on the meter. Pressing the horn button should show close to zero ohms. if you have this response, the horn rod and button works. The one wire JC Whitney horn can be modified to work like a Model A horn by taking the cover off and carefully looking for the varnished coated wire connected to the horn frame, if you can find this connection cut the wire from the horn frame and that wire becomes your second horn wire. Good luck

03-02-2024, 09:28 PM	#3
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Herb, thanks. I'll take a look at that.

03-02-2024, 09:54 PM	#4
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info The horn is probably the commonly seen "Hutchins" pattern. One of the three I have has a chrome bell, a blue (go figure) back body, and a single wire coming out through a hole with a rubber grommet on it to prevent shorting. It's a 12V horn IIRC - the primary sales market of JC Whitney in the 1970s. On mine if its like yours the "ground connection" occurs through the "body" of the horn. You need a nice tight bolt arrangement where its attached to a piece of your car which hopefully is equally well connected to the car frame for continuous effective grounding. Which is the way these Hutchins horns were sold to be used on 12V "modern" cars. The Model A is neither 12V (usually) nor "modern" (usually.) You're looking at a hybrid possibility. The problem you will have is the usual center of the steering column rod/pushbutton works on the Model A horn by providing the ground. The Model A horn is "live" all the time but works when you provide the ground by pressing the pushbutton. (I.e. current flow is "up" the button rod via the internal wire, and the momentary switch connecting to rod exterior/ground is "under" the pushbutton. It is possible to open the Hutchins horn, and trace out the wires. You need to "lift" the horn electrical ground and connect/extend this to yield TWO wires. At the link below you can see the Model A horn wiring. It has (IIRC) a "yellow" wire which is the "hot" wiring going to the horn. The "yellow/green" wiring leaves the horn and connects to the horn button/rod. This is the Model A Ford current path. https://lesmodela.files.wordpress.co...ng-diagram.pdf And below is a previous board discussion/disassembly of the Hutchins horn. Those who HAVE opened the horn and took pix. No wiring diagram but the exact subject of ground IS discussed. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ns+horn+wiring Between these two you probably have enough information to make something that works. OR you could provide the usual "farmer fix" and mount a surface mounted pushbutton switch above your gas tank on the interior moulding - which is how I found my truck (Avatar) when I bought it in 1973. You're not the first to encounter this problem. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse. Last edited by Joe K; 03-02-2024 at 10:00 PM.

03-03-2024, 08:59 AM	#5
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Amazing what a night's sleep can do. You can use the horn without modification if you provide a "relay" which is normally open but on energization goes "closed." The relay acts as intermediary and takes the place of the Model A horn. You press your horn button, it completes the circuit and energizes the relay (which is "live"), which in turn completes its circuit to feed current to the JC Whitney horn. I'm looking forward to tonight's bed-rest to uncover more truths. https://www.famousscientists.org/7-g...ade-in-dreams/ Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

03-03-2024, 09:15 AM	#6
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 4,036	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) To get the horn button to work, remove the C clip at the bottom after compressing the spring and remove the "spider" and spring. The horn rod should slide up. They should be tabs at the top that can be bent straight to take the button apart. If you can get the horn rod out of the steering column that is best. If you have closed car you may have to loosen the steering column to move the wheel down to remove the rod. First check the conductivity of the wire in the center with an ohm meter. If no conductivity then you may have to buy a new horn rod and switch with the same length. If the conductivity of the wire is good then clean up the contact on the bottom of the horn button. Check conductivity between the outside diameter of the horn rod and the wire when the horn is pressed. If that is good, re assemble and put everything back together. You can compress the spring in a vice and tie it in the compressed position with 4 loops of strong string to make installation easier. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-03-2024, 01:27 PM	#7
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Thanks all. You have given me plenty to look at. With a little luck, I save money on new horn and light switch rod.....

03-03-2024, 05:53 PM	#8
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,829	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info I'm looking forward to tonight's bed-rest to uncover more truths. lol, the computer is always running, even when we dont realize it!

03-04-2024, 08:14 AM	#9
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Ronn, any luck? Cold fusion, maybe?

05-14-2024, 01:23 PM	#10
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Another question - My 1970 JC Whitney horn rod fits flatly into the steering wheel recess. I wonder if the rod is long enough to reach the 'contact' in the switch, in order to create the 'ground' when needed. Should the rod have a bit of 'spring' in it as you push down on the horn button? Not just the button itself, but the entire rod? I see the contact in the switch is spring-loaded..... Thanks

05-14-2024, 03:09 PM	#11
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info After watching YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaFC50UM3nY , I see I am missing a spring and C-Clamp that holds the rod securely into the steering wheel recess. (I've always been able to just pull the rod out of the steering column). So I still think my rod might be too short, but don't see any way to test it.... I know the button doesn't 'ground' the horn wire, but is the button broken, or the rod just too short? Any suggestions? PS-I did finally get my horn to NOT ground itself on the headlamp bar, so I need to get the rod horn button working....

05-14-2024, 06:00 PM	#13
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info Slick! I'll see what I can do... (need to buy the spring and clip)

05-16-2024, 03:10 PM	#14
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info I build up the horn contact in the switch so the rod now presses against it. But no luck on getting a ground to work. So I've taken the horn/light rod out of the steering column. The tabs holding the button assembly are TIGHT. I can't budge them at all. To further test the button, I've held a live wire to the very tip of the rod, below the insulation. I've pushed the button, and tried to 'ground' the rod shaft against a known engine grounding spot. I get no spark. (I assume once assembled, the C-clip and spring do the grounding against the steering column). So can I assume my rod is bad, and barring a way to get the button loose to possibly repair it, I need a new rod? Also, any ideas on getting the tabs free? As always, thanks.....

05-16-2024, 04:43 PM	#15
Chuck Dempsey Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesville, NC Posts: 810	Re: JC Whitney 1970 era horn info I spoke too soon.... I did get the horn button apart, and it was too rusty to make good contact. I sanded it down and tested it, so the button is now working. I'd like to bend the tabs down a bit more, but I'm good with what I have for now. So the next question is - does the C_Clamp and spring ground the rod to the steering column? I don't see anything else, except maybe just the rod rubbing against the inside of the column, which doesn't sound to secure.... Thanks!