Question for carb experts

[scicala]

Herman,

I can tell it has a different carb because of the fuel inlet location on the front passenger's side of the carb. Teapots had rear fuel inlets. Now after a 2nd look at it it looks like a later '57 intake manifold too because of no adaptor to change the bolt pattern. More than likely a Holley 4150 or 4160 carb, or even a two barrel intake and carb.
I also agree I have seen two different 4 barrel air cleaners on '56 Fords. The one pictured and one with no vertical bar in the inlet.

Sal

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by scicala

... Now after a 2nd look at it it looks like a later '57 intake manifold too because of no adaptor to change the bolt pattern. ...

He is good.
The '57 4bbl intake manifold is bigger & chunkier looking than the '56 (& '55) 4bbl intake manifolds because it was upgraded with larger passages for the D code 312 engines.
The carburetor stud mounting holes are also noticeably closer to the intake runners.
.

[KULTULZ]

...hmmph...

GOOD CATCH!

So, although the photo appears as a dedicated restoration, in reality it is not.

One has to be sharp as to what he is purchasing.

EDIT-

It also appears the carb to be a WCFB it's fuel inlet being where it is.

[Herman Munster]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

...hmmph...

GOOD CATCH!

So, although the photo appears as a dedicated restoration, in reality it is not.

One has to be sharp as to what he is purchasing.

EDIT-

It also appears the carb to be a WCFB it's fuel inlet being where it is.

I'm now trying to make mine look like a period correct upgrade since all the parts I've come across are 57's.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

So, although the photo appears as a dedicated restoration, in reality it is not.
One has to be sharp as to what he is purchasing.

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I'm now trying to make mine look like a period correct upgrade since all the parts I've come across are 57's.

Originally Posted by Crankster

Tough crowd, that thing looks nice. I suppose it's not concours, but.

I'm attempting the "period correct upgrade" route with a '55 Bird.
or at least a bit more like it should have been than when I bought it.

While I can definitely appreciate a car that's 'original', I'm not that hung up on it unless something is represented as what it isn't.
(like the engine in a certain car that was listed in 3 unrelated places as a 292, but was a 256)

.

[Herman Munster]

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Originally Posted by scicala

Herman,

I can tell it has a different carb because of the fuel inlet location on the front passenger's side of the carb. Teapots had rear fuel inlets. Now after a 2nd look at it it looks like a later '57 intake manifold too because of no adaptor to change the bolt pattern. More than likely a Holley 4150 or 4160 carb, or even a two barrel intake and carb.
I also agree I have seen two different 4 barrel air cleaners on '56 Fords. The one pictured and one with no vertical bar in the inlet.

Sal

The fuel line inlet should have been an easy catch now that you said it. I forgot the teapot had it the back. I have the same CRS disorder KULTULZ mentions.

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

He is good.
The '57 4bbl intake manifold is bigger & chunkier looking than the '56 (& '55) 4bbl intake manifolds because it was upgraded with larger passages for the D & F code 312 engines.
The carburetor mounting bolts are also noticeably closer to the intake runners.
.

I'll have to put the two side by side and compare them. I'll try to take a photo.

[Crankster]

Tough crowd, that thing looks nice. I suppose it's not concours, but.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Crankster

Tough crowd, that thing looks nice. I suppose it's not concours, but.

Not so much as others, but I am definitely anal...

To me, a period piece such as these being discussed should be assembly correct, and although that is actually an impossibility owing to all of the assembly detail/dealer prep/general repair procedures/variances ... well ... hard to explain.

There is a huge difference (to me anyways) between someone displaying a dedicated restoration or a modified car.

OCD- Correct Alphabetical Order CDO

[Herman Munster]

I read there were 4 different types of my carb for 1957. Since the tag is missing from it is there still a way to figure out which one it could be?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I read there were 4 different types of my carb for 1957. Since the tag is missing from it is there still a way to figure out which one it could be?

Can you show a photo?

EDIT-

I expect this statement to cause some controversy but I had a 57 312 (my first of many) that had the 4000 on it (and the install appeared OEM - no butcher work - why would anyone retrofit). I didn't know what L-O-M was back then (1968). I am trying to find my 57 Service Manual to verify this.

So the 57 used the-

1) FORD 4100

2) CARTER AFB

3) HOLLEY 4150

4) HOLLEY 4000 (possibly).

[Herman Munster]

KULTULZwhat I meant was that there were four listings for the Ford 4100 carb, B7A-B. B7A-X, ECZ-U andECZ-Z. I found that mine is a ECZ-Z. These letters were stamped on the body of the carb. I think this might narrow down what Ford it was specific to.
The only thing I could find so far using the teapot in 57 were 312 T-birds with superchargers and twin quads.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

KULTULZ- what I meant was that there were four listings for the Ford 4100 carb, B7A-B. B7A-X, ECZ-U and ECZ-Z. I found that mine is a ECZ-Z. These letters were stamped on the body of the carb. I think this might narrow down what Ford it was specific to.

Yes, it should.

I will be back ...

[KULTULZ]

ECZ-Z

1957 FORD 312 F/M 4100

Service PN B7A 9510-Z R/B B7AE 9510-A

Note: 1F - Stamped ID Located On Fuel Bowl

According to TEXT, ID TAGS were not used until the 1959 Model Year.

[Herman Munster]

That's why there isn't any tag on the carb. I thought it was missing. The text in the book was a little confusing saying some earlier service models had a tag.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

That's why there isn't any tag on the carb. I thought it was missing. The text in the book was a little confusing saying some earlier service models had a tag.

There may have been I.D. Tags used before, but this is what the FORD MPC says for the period (and they have been incorrect and/or wrong before).

If you notice, even later carbs that came through tagged usually had I.D. Info stamped somewhere on the carb.

...some earlier service models had a tag

This is another gotcha...

Service usually describes a later SERVICE PART REPLACEMENT whereas FACTORY ASSEMBLY PART means what came through from the factory.

This is why (to me anyways) that repair/restoration is so in-concise as all factory info may not be complete and/or incorrect and many that decipher may understand it incorrectly or display it incorrectly which then leads to hearsay issues.

One reason I never tried for an OEM CORRECT RESTORATION (other than $$$) as assemblies can differ from one assembly plant to another and among suppliers.

Much less, I am already OCD so one would most likely drive me over the edge...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Does anyone know if it's possible to convert the early type Autolite 4100 to use a the later model accelerator pump. The older type uses a longer accelerator pump and the latter a shorter type.

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

Did you mention somewhere while showing your air cleaner that you were having difficulty finding the correct replacement element?

Or am I hallucinating again..

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

Did you mention somewhere while showing your air cleaner that you were having difficulty finding the correct replacement element?

Or am I hallucinating again..

1958 thru sometime in 1964, the pump covers looked like the picture you posted. 1957 was the first and only year they were "super extended". Starting in late '64 they had an even shorter cover.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

BTW- The 4100 shown here is the 1964/ re-design. The 58/63 retained the extended fuel inlet.

]

Originally Posted by scicala

1958 thru sometime in 1964, the pump covers looked like the picture you posted. 1957 was the first and only year they were "super extended". Starting in late '64 they had an even shorter cover.

Sal

What I was attempting to get across Sal (not too well it seems) is the 1957 (and 58/60) fuel inlet castings on the fuel bowl were extended so as to add to the interference with the 1957 FYB intake mounted heater control valve.

With concentrated ciphering, I found I was wrong and the extended fuel inlet casting was dropped on the 1961 model. The 2nd pump change was in 1964/1965 it seems. I remember selling Accel Pump Diaphrams (C4AZ 9B559-A) that included an extension pin so as to be able to be used with either post 1957 style.

[Herman Munster]

Yes, none of the elements are tall enough. I used a few websites that provided filter dimensions to cross reference one that came close which is how I found the Desoto filter. It still isn't a perfect fit.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

Yes, none of the elements are tall enough. I used a few websites that provided filter dimensions to cross reference one that came close which is how I found the Desoto filter. It still isn't a perfect fit.

It appears to me the ACL is 1958/ style.

It takes C3VY 9601-A. The measurements are in the text below.

-AIR FILTER CROSSING GUIDE-

Let me know if they sound correct.