How did they title cars back then? et.al.

[John Stone]

I have an opportunity to buy a special coupe that the engine number says it is an extremely late Nov 28 (almost like the last number) but it is titled as a 29. Was this a common practice like it is now? I have a car that I bought in the summer of 2008 and it is titled as a 2009.

Which radiator shell would it have?

It has the cut down front cross member for the later front motor mount and a mixture of running board braces.

Another weird thing is the center cross member has some holes that makes it appear like the frame was slated for RH drive.

I have known this car since the 70's and know it was bought by my friends great aunt in the very early 30's. It has 42,000 actually miles but is in pieces.

[Kevin in NJ]

There is a lag between the engine build which is when they stamped the number and when it was put in a frame. So if you could imagine an engine built MI and then put on a train to an assemble plant. There it was put in a warehouse and use in a first in last out arrangement. Just look at the warehouse photos that are published online and in books. The warehouses were huge.

Anyway, depending on how fast the cars were being built and how fast engines were being shipped controlled the delay till the engine getting on the frame. Things were moving pretty fast in late 28 since the depression had not hit yet. I believe the JS calls out 3 months as fair game. So you could have a Feb 29 car with a late Nov number.

Now as for the titling, that was all over the place. It depended on the state and the what mood the clerk was in and who know what else. Even then the car should have been titled as its model year. So a car marketed as a 29 would have had a 29 title. Then there is the issue of what got done over the years the car was bought and sold. Plus it could be a built up car and not really any specific model year. There are lots of those mix breeds laying around.

You can not really compare to modern cars because they were done made on model year. For example, Ford pushed and introduced the 1965 Mustang in April of 1964 to make the Worlds Fair. There is no such thing as a 1964 Mustang. Typically the next model year cars are out around October/ November and will have model year on the title.

[James Rogers]

So you don't believe in a 64 1/2 Mustang that was introduced in June of 1964. You need to research your answers better.

[Kevin in NJ]

From Wikipedia

Production of the 1965 Mustang (VIN coded by Ford and titled as 1965 models[8]) began in Dearborn, Michigan on March 9, 1964[9] and the car was introduced to the public on April 17, 1964[10] at the New York World's Fair.[11]

I am sure I could come up with other references if I felt like it was worth getting out of my chair.

These Mustangs were all made with 1965 VINs

A year or two ago there was some discussions on the Mustang boards about the first cars. Some guy claims to have one of the first cars off the line.

Oh and Yes, I have early Mustangs too. I am down to only 2 now.

Would you care to sight your resources?

[James Rogers]

According to Wikipedia!
"The Ford Mustang is an automobile manufactured by the Ford Motor Company. It was initially based on the second generation North American Ford Falcon, a compact car.[1] Introduced early on April 17, 1964,[2] dubbed as a "1964½" model by Mustang fans, the 1965 Mustang was the automaker's most successful launch since the Model A.[3] The model is Ford's third oldest nameplate in production[citation needed] and has undergone several transformations to its current fifth generation."

You play with the, I grew up with them. This is called research.

[gweilbaker]

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After the first winter they were known as Rustangs up here in the rust belt, didn't matter what year it was called.

Not sure about titles but they had to have plates. Some states required some proof of ownership be it a title or "bill of sale" in order to be plated, oh yeah and pay the taxes.

It's cool you have the provenance. Are you going to bring it back to original?

GW

[Richard Wilson]

To answer the original question, I think that most states in the 20's and 30's titled the vehicle as to the year that it was purchased. No proof offered just my experience.

[d.j. moordigian]

John,
What is strange about the center cross member, elaborate ?

[Jerry in Shasta]

Early on California used the engine number. When that be came to big of a hassle they went to frame number. The only thing in California that uses engine numbers now is a motorcycle, I think.

Dmv could not read the last number on my frame because of rust. So they just used the numbers they could read reliably. I now have the only 1930 S/W in California

[Keith True]

In N.H. cars were titled when they were sold,as they were done by the state,not the manufacturer.N.H. started issuing titles in 1964,for new cars only,and reissued for used cars 64 and up.I bought a 64-1/2 Mustang in 1974.It was titled as a 64 from the original owner.I bought a new Chevy truck in March of 1980,it was titled as an 80 when I bought it.It was built in June of 79,and I had to call it a 79 for parts.My dad and uncle were painting the showroom of the Rambler dealership in late 71,there was an SC Rambler still in the showroom.It was a 69 and had been there for three years.My uncle bought it,and it was titled as a 1971,as that is when it got it's first title.I found this out when I bought it from him years later.I have no idea how other states treat things,I've only had to deal with N.H.I do have an idea it has something to do with the town taxes.When you register a car you pay the town a tax according to the year,and then it goes down until it bottoms out.It takes four years for that.After that it is fixed forever.If you tried to register a 69 car in 71,and it was new,had to register it as a 71 so they could get the full first year tax of a new car.I do remember it cost about $200.total to register a new Pinto,VW bug, or Vega in 1972,and by 1976 it had bottomed out at $37.per year.

[John Stone]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

John,
What is strange about the center cross member, elaborate ?

It has holes on the RH side like the ones on the LH. The RH holes are not too neat. Almost like they were put in with a cutting torch. This is the first time the body has ever been off the frame.

I will try to get some pictures.

[Chris in WNC]

our unrestored May '31 engine number Tudor was titled as a '32.

[Dick Webber]

Most 28 and 29 models have a date stamp on the gas tank, firewall, drivers side.

[dave in australia]

John, IIRC, all chassis had LHD and RHD steering box mount holes.

[John Stone]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

John,
What is strange about the center cross member, elaborate ?

Here are the pictures. After further review, it looks more like the RH drive that was later convered to a LH drive. I know the history of the car and this mod could have only been done at the factory. I found out yesterday the car was sold out from under me. The owner got a better off from one of the Model A cobblers in the club. It could have been a MARC of Excellence car but now it will be lost.

[dave in australia]

John, I believe your correct. The centre cross member is stamped to support the foot brake cross shaft of the first two brake systems on a RHD car. Those stampings are not present on the third style brake system. Has your chassis got a hand brake mount on the right hand chassis rail just forward of the centre cross member. If it has, it is a chassis for the first brake system, if there isn't, then it is for the second brake system. Both were easily converted to the third system, which is what you now have fitted.

[John Stone]

Originally Posted by dave in australia

John, I believe your correct. The centre cross member is stamped to support the foot brake cross shaft of the first two brake systems on a RHD car. Those stampings are not present on the third style brake system. Has your chassis got a hand brake mount on the right hand chassis rail just forward of the centre cross member. If it has, it is a chassis for the first brake system, if there isn't, then it is for the second brake system. Both were easily converted to the third system, which is what you now have fitted.

The car is an extremely late Nov 28 so the brake system was factory converted and there is no provisions on the RH side rail for the hand brake. Sorry to say, it is not my car (in my avatar you can see my coupe and it is an April 28 so it does have all the early brake system), the car in the picture was sold to someone else.

[John LaVoy]

I have a friend that has a 1930 tudor sedan that was sold in 1931 and is titled as a 1931 but has the shell etc of the 1930.

[John LaVoy]

You know Timothy that is probably it! I never looked at the title like that but do recall the information is year first sold, now that you mention it.

[TonyM]

et al = and others or all the rest, especially when referring to a work with multiple authors.

http://www.ehow.com/about_4606330_et...tand-for_.html

Not sure how it fits in this title

TM