Head Gasket Install

[ursus]

Finishing up on rebuilt engine and using a FelPro graphite/metal core head gasket which akin to the BEST Graphtite gasket. The Snyder 5.5/1 head is new and the block was surfaced just enough to true things up.

Do I still need to used a spray-on gasket sealer or not. I would like to avoid the messy cleanup if the head has to come off later. Somebody told me that this type of gasket sticks to the metal and that clean-up is still a chore with or without the gasket sealer. Any thoughts?

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by ursus

Finishing up on rebuilt engine and using a FelPro graphite/metal core head gasket which akin to the BEST Graphtite gasket. The Snyder 5.5/1 head is new and the block was surfaced just enough to true things up.

Do I still need to used a spray-on gasket sealer or not. I would like to avoid the messy cleanup if the head has to come off later. Somebody told me that this type of gasket sticks to the metal and that clean-up is still a chore with or without the gasket sealer. Any thoughts?

I use the copper spray-on gasket sealer when I use the Best gasket and yes, cleanup of the head and the block surface afterwards is a pain. (And separation of the two to pull off the head later is also a pain.) I've also taken off heads with graphite gaskets that didn't use the copper sealer and cleanup is still a pain, but a bit less of one. A good carbide scraper such as this one goes a long way to making it easier, just be sure to not allow the gasket shavings to go down a water jacket hole.

[1crosscut]

I don't use the copper coat sealer. If you decide to use it do so sparingly.
You will have some squeeze out during the process of torqueing the head. Resist the urge to wipe it off. Instead leave it alone for a few days until it dries and then scrape / cut the excess of with a razor blade.
If you try to remove it while wet you will have a smeary mess.

[Charlie Stephens]

One question I don't know the answer too is that does the Snyder head use a Model B gasket? Be sure to ask them if you haven't already.

Charlie Stephens

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

One question I don't know the answer too is that does the Snyder head use a Model B gasket? Be sure to ask them if you haven't already.

Charlie Stephens

It doesn’t.

[ursus]

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Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

One question I don't know the answer too is that does the Snyder head use a Model B gasket? Be sure to ask them if you haven't already.

Charlie Stephens

From Snyder's catalog is the following regarding their 5.5/1 head:
"You must use the 1932-34 "B" style head gasket with this cylinder head".

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by ursus

From Snyder's catalog is the following regarding their 5.5/1 head:
"You must use the 1932-34 "B" style head gasket with this cylinder head".

My understanding is that’s old advice from when the standard A gaskets sometimes had a fire ring that could interfere with the head. The current Best gaskets (509C/G) work just fine with any of the HC heads.

[nkaminar]

Even a new head can be slightly warped. There can also be some piston interference. Put some Plastigauge down on the block in several places and then bolt the head down without the gasket. You do not have to apply full torque but just enough to be sure the head is down. There should be no more than 0.002 gap anywhere. Do not turn the engine over when you do this and rotate the engine so that no pistons are at the top before doing this test.

Then place the head on the block without a gasket and without fastening it down but resting on the block. Turn the engine over by hand and note if the head rises. If it does you will have to have the pockets in the head machined. Some people have used two gaskets but I do not recommend that. You can do this test first.

I have had the best luck with the Best brand gasket and the copper spray gasket sealer. Other people have used that same gasket without the sealer and report good results. With the new head and surfaced block you may be able to get by without the sealer.

[Big hammer]

With my Synder’s 6.0 -1 and Best’s graphite gasket my engine rebuilder said to use a little grease on the gasket ( I wiped it on and wiped if off to leave just a film ) also he said to use 1/2 vile of sealer in the coolant. I did what my rebuilder said to do and I’ve been very happy with the results !

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

My understanding is that’s old advice from when the standard A gaskets sometimes had a fire ring that could interfere with the head. The current Best gaskets (509C/G) work just fine with any of the HC heads.

Place a Model A gasket on top of a Model B gasket and you will see the problem. Will it work, maybe?

Charlie Stephens

[nkaminar]

Ursus, One other note: Take up the toque in steps. Start at 25 foot-pounds and increase in 5 foot-pound increments to 55 foot-pounds.

Then start the engine and let it warm up and then shut it down. Let it cool overnight and then re-torque. Drive 100 miles, let it cool overnight and re-torque. Drive 1,000 miles, let it cool overnight and re-torque. Re-torque once a year on a cold engine. Mileage is approximate.

Do not use a gasket between the coolant outlet (goose neck) and the head but just a smear of gasket cement. The goose neck has a tendency to crack when a gasket is used and with two gaskets to set the torque reading will vary more than the rest of the nuts.

Also re-torque the manifold nuts at the same time as the head. I use 55 foot-pounds but only use that if the manifolds are perfectly flat and in plane. Others use 25 foot-pounds.

[bumppo72]

I have always just put a very thin coat of motor oil and wiped most of it off. I haven't had any problems. After the engine has run, retorque the head several times until you no longer see a need to tighten.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by ursus

Finishing up on rebuilt engine and using a FelPro graphite/metal core head gasket which akin to the BEST Graphtite gasket. The Snyder 5.5/1 head is new and the block was surfaced just enough to true things up.

Do I still need to used a spray-on gasket sealer or not. I would like to avoid the messy cleanup if the head has to come off later. Somebody told me that this type of gasket sticks to the metal and that clean-up is still a chore with or without the gasket sealer. Any thoughts?

I would strongly recommend you resurface the cylinder head as well.
If you've resurfaced the block the head is what's going to fail as the surface finish along with it being warped out of the box .

We've had to resurface every Snyder/Tod head we've installed for customers due to aforementioned issues.
www.jandm-machine.com

[Planojc]

There was a discussion recently on the V8 side and many used grease and one used three coats of silver paint.

[jeepguy1948]

Jim Briely uses silver paint instead of gasket sealant because the sealant also acts as a glue making it a pain to get it off in the future and I generally go with what Jim does (he hasn’t failed me yet). The discussion on the V8 side was started by me. I was surprised to learn about using grease but apparently it’s quite common, it would definitely be cheap and easy.

[nkaminar]

Cast iron (and cast aluminum) has built in stresses after it cools. In the past, the raw casting were kept for a year or more before machining which allows the internal stress to dissipate. This costs money so now most castings are machined soon after casting. Large parts, such as engine blocks have less tendency to warp.

Precision machining of cast aluminum requires careful planning so that the internal stresses do not warp the part during the machining. The casting can be heat soaked to relieve most of the internal stress before machining.

[ursus]

Per nkaminar in Post #8, I laid down oiled pieces of green Plastgauge at 14 points around the top of the block and torqued down the head (without gasket) to 20 ft/lbs. All points of contact were measured at <0.002 inches, mostly 0.0015 inches or less. This is with a 5.5/1 head sourced directly from Snyder's about 10-12 years ago. I am using a FelPro 7014-R1 gasket, which is of steel/asbestos composition, purchased at the same time, and not mentioned much by anybody on here.

I did a deep dive into the FB archives regarding the use of gasket sealer copper spray, Indian Head Shellac, silver spray paint, grease, nothing-at-all, etc. and it was like reading the endless debates about which oil to use - every goop has its adherents. It's so confusing.

[Don S]

In 2007 I bought a Brumfield 5.9 head directly from Larry, he told me that white lithium grease was good to use on the gasket.Torqued to 60lbs it sealed well ,with no issues. I have removed the head since then,without difficulty. The block and head cleaned easily. Felpro 7013C copper-clad head gasket is his gasket of choice,coated lightly with grease.
Don

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by J and M Machine

I would strongly recommend you resurface the cylinder head as well.
If you've resurfaced the block the head is what's going to fail as the surface finish along with it being warped out of the box .

We've had to resurface every Snyder/Tod head we've installed for customers due to aforementioned issues.
www.jandm-machine.com

Funny, I took my 6:1 Snyders head to the NAPA machine shop and he said it was really flat and didn't need machining.

[nkaminar]

Grease was used on competition engines in the 60's as gasket sealer for all the gaskets because it made the engines easy to disassemble after racing to freshen up the engine. I have no idea if it is still used in this way as I am still living in the 60's.