New block, a further discussion

[awelker]

I've been following along with this discussion and thought I'd add a few thoughts.

In regards to the need for vintage racers, for the SCTA all non oem production blocks are not allowed. Not even the French blocks. This may change someday but who knows.

If I were to approach this task with sufficient funds I would use the 3D printing process which can directly print sand molds and cores. This would allow you to create test motors without shelling out for casting patterns that may just need to be thrown away. The 3D printed sand patterns are expensive but I feel could be justified to avoid pattern rework.

On the design side I feel you need to keep compatibility with most all components you can. As soon as you stray from the original design you are losing out on some of the demand. Your idea of lowering the intake valve to the bore is the difference between pre war and post war blocks. Starting with the 59 series blocks the valves and lifter bores were rotated up around the cam bore. This moved the valve heads .090" further away from the bore at the deck surface.

Ultimately it all boils down to demand unless you are independently wealthy and have the means to do this just for fun. I consider myself in the younger crowd in the flathead world and being a racer I have the opportunity to ruin my fair share of blocks in the future. That being said I feel I have already squirreled away at least 50% of my lifetime supply of tested, crack free blocks. So even at the right price I don't know if I would ever have the need for one, even though I would love to see this happen.

Andy

[Henry Floored]

Originally Posted by awelker

I've been following along with this discussion and thought I'd add a few thoughts.

In regards to the need for vintage racers, for the SCTA all non oem production blocks are not allowed. Not even the French blocks. This may change someday but who knows.

If I were to approach this task with sufficient funds I would use the 3D printing process which can directly print sand molds and cores. This would allow you to create test motors without shelling out for casting patterns that may just need to be thrown away. The 3D printed sand patterns are expensive but I feel could be justified to avoid pattern rework.

On the design side I feel you need to keep compatibility with most all components you can. As soon as you stray from the original design you are losing out on some of the demand. Your idea of lowering the intake valve to the bore is the difference between pre war and post war blocks. Starting with the 59 series blocks the valves and lifter bores were rotated up around the cam bore. This moved the valve heads .090" further away from the bore at the deck surface.

Ultimately it all boils down to demand unless you are independently wealthy and have the means to do this just for fun. I consider myself in the younger crowd in the flathead world and being a racer I have the opportunity to ruin my fair share of blocks in the future. That being said I feel I have already squirreled away at least 50% of my lifetime supply of tested, crack free blocks. So even at the right price I don't know if I would ever have the need for one, even though I would love to see this happen.

Andy

Excellent post, thank you for your input Andy.

I would like to ask you if say a new block is never approved for competition in any current vintage engine classes, would there be any reason why a racer couldn't just run this theoretical new engine just to get a "personal" record for instance?

If said engine could simply bolt into the same place as an original Flathead Ford what would prevent someone from running this engine in an "open" class?

[Henry Floored]

BTW, the point that Andy made about the later engines which had the valves moved away from the cylinder margin is very interesting.

I have heard multiple people express how well their early 221" V8's run. My '41 which is stock except for dual exhaust has no trouble keeping pace with later and larger Flatheads. (yes we run 'em for fun sometimes)

Could it be that the 81A breathes a bit better due to the proximity of the valves relative to the cylinder margin?

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Henry Floored

Excellent post, thank you for your input Andy.

I would like to ask you if say a new block is never approved for competition in any current vintage engine classes, would there be any reason why a racer couldn't just run this theoretical new engine just to get a "personal" record for instance?

If said engine could simply bolt into the same place as an original Flathead Ford what would prevent someone from running this engine in an "open" class?

While the SCTA will not allow a replacement flathead block the other timing associations ECTA and LTA allow the use of replacement flathead blocks on the East Coast. The French block is legal for the X class racers to use if they so chose. I was the guy who proposed this rule change to the ECTA and it was approved.
The last records I set running my XF/BGL Lakester at the Ohio mile was with a French flathead block turning just over 172 MPH the record set at the LTA event with the French block was 182 MPH. These records are the first ever set using the French block for land speed racing.
If and when a replacement block is produced there will be a place to set records and if its determined the improvements are an unfair advantage a class for the new block would be proposed and Im sure approved at least on the East Coast.
Ronnieroadster