Rust proofing: Schutz, cavity wax, other

[apbright]

I am planning to drive my Town Sedan occasionally in winter weather, which will include wet, salted roads. (Yes, call me stupid, but I'm a 42 year old that works on and drives a car twice his age, and it's the snow and salt that makes me stupid?)

I have been trying to read up on 3M Schutz and cavity wax, but don't find much really useful information about what makes sense to put where. Any of you folks have experience good/bad with such materials?

Thanks, Andrew

[pgerhardt]

In the seventies I had a 1930 Coupe, a 1936 hump back 4-door, and a 1962 T-bird. In the winter I would garage the coupe and use both the T-bird and the 36. I got snow tires for the 36 (they looked like oversized knobby motorcycle tires!), and I would say the 36 was just as good in the snow as the T-bird with one exception. While the 36 had a Southwind heater which kept it nice and warm, it had no system for defogging/defrosting the windshield. At times I had to stop by the side of the road to clean the windshield so I could see where I was going. So if you want to drive your A in the winter you might want to look into installing a defogging/defrosting system and a set of snow tires.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by pgerhardt

In the seventies I had a 1930 Coupe, a 1936 hump back 4-door, and a 1962 T-bird. In the winter I would garage the coupe and use both the T-bird and the 36. I got snow tires for the 36 (they looked like oversized knobby motorcycle tires!), and I would say the 36 was just as good in the snow as the T-bird with one exception. While the 36 had a Southwind heater which kept it nice and warm, it had no system for defogging/defrosting the windshield. At times I had to stop by the side of the road to clean the windshield so I could see where I was going. So if you want to drive your A in the winter you might want to look into installing a defogging/defrosting system and a set of snow tires.

What does any of your comment/reply have to do with addressing Andrew's question ??? He is asking for input from anyone who has experience with the products he has mentioned....

[JTW]

Do your research on Fluid Film. You have renew it every year, but it works. We have highly salted roads here and a lot industrial boats and equipment on the salt water that use it. It is about $60 a gal. but that amount would do 3 or 4 cars. It is not a harden on permanent undercoat. A pressure washer will remove it.

[Marvin/TN]

3M Schutz

3M Schutz is mainly used to prevent rock chips on lower body panels. It also works well unter fenders for the same purpose. It uses a special gun to apply and it does not go on smooth. It is also paintable. Not sure about it's rust proofing qualities.

[pgerhardt]

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Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

What does any of your comment/reply have to do with addressing Andrew's question ??? He is asking for input from anyone who has experience with the products he has mentioned....

I thought this was a place where we share our experiences so that other can benefit. Since the question involved driving an A through the winter, and I have had much experience driving an old Ford (with basically the same suspension as the A) in winter weather, I shared my experience. I am sorry you felt it was a waist of time.

BTW to others who stray from just answering a question technically to share your experiences, please keep doing so. I enjoy sharing in all your experiences, and feel it adds color and context to what may have been a dry question/answer thread.

[Flathead]

You should use a product that does not harden, and will penetrate seams and rusted areas. Fluid Film would do that, also the waxy products. Detailed application is very important as well. Eastwood has some good "rustproofing" products. Plain old undercoating is not good for this. An oldtimers solution was to give the whole underside a good heavy spray coat of drain oil, then ride a dusty road to cover the drain oil. Whatever you decide, be sure you clean off any salt first. Salty roads are bad for vehicles.

[eagle]

LPS Rust Inhibitor is a very good product for rustproofing. I use it on my modern cars and it makes a huge difference. Leaves a wax type residue that stays on for several years. Comes in an aerosol can with a tube to attach to the nozzle to get in tight places.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by pgerhardt

I thought this was a place where we share our experiences so that other can benefit. Since the question involved driving an A through the winter, and I have had much experience driving an old Ford (with basically the same suspension as the A) in winter weather, I shared my experience. I am sorry you felt it was a waist of time.

BTW to others who stray from just answering a question technically to share your experiences, please keep doing so. I enjoy sharing in all your experiences, and feel it adds color and context to what may have been a dry question/answer thread.

Plus 1

[Brother Hesekiel]

The son of a Swedish father and a German mother, I grew up in places with horrible weather year round, ranging from 280 days of rain per year up to harsh winters lasting several months. It's one of the reasons why I live in California now.

I won't write an essay on what we've done in the old days to keep our cars alive, but the Brits and Germans have researched many products in regard to their efficiency to prevent rust. I'm a big fan of Fertan to remove rust without fuss, have used it for decades with great success, and if you check out the amazing story of my old Volvo (now on 8 pages), you'll find some cool photos of it at work.

http://www.californiaclassix.com/Bernard/PV544-1.html

To protect a car from rusting, the best product for many years has been Mike Sander's Karrosserieschutzfett (funny name, I know). It has outperformed all of the big hitters for over 30 years in that it moves in ways and to places no other product can match:

http://mike.british-cars.de/english.htm

Yes, you won't get this stuff next door, but it's the very best there is.

In addition, I'd like to suggest something I learned a very long time from an old master mechanic in his 70s who never had a rusty car, despite the fact that he drove it throughout the winters, salt on the road and all, when all of our cars where rusting like hell. He cleaned the undercarriage thoroughly, then had a bucket of grease that he got cheaply from the railroad, and brushed the stuff onto the undercarriage of his car. He liberally put a layer of grease on everything, embedded brake lines and fuel lines, and once the winter was over, he just wiped 95% of it off with a bunch-o-rags, and re-applied as needed, less in the summer, more before winter hit again. I use the same method, although we soak our Bonneville rig (truck and trailer) in fresh ATF before going on the salt and pressure washing everything off when we're back.

The advantage of this is that you can clean it up 100%, leave no trace afterward, and if you ever sell your car, it will look considerably nicer with paint underneath than with goo.

There you have it, my 2 cents.

[apbright]

Thanks everyone,

I think I'm going to go with putting Schutz on the inner surfaces of the fenders (save for the spare tire wheel wells), to prevent chipping from wheel-thrown rocks, and will try fluid-film most everywhere else.

I like the story about the grease, and in fact I think I shall try that on moving parts, e.g. brake arms, springs, steering arms (I guess it should be there anyway, eh?).

Cheers, Andrew

[40 Deluxe]

Don't forget that salt spray from passing cars will get blasted into every nook and cranny that these rust-proofing products never reach-salt spray will hit the windows and run down into the doors and quarter panels, into the windshield hinge and make you wonder why you can't open the windshield next summer, under the running board matting, and so on. Salt water will wick into crevices that plain water won't, plus when you hit the car with the high pressure wand at the car wash you are driving the salt deeper into body seams, etc.
A's are great fun to drive in the snow plus you can impress your buddies with just how much snow they will go through (you don't need no stinkin' front wheel drive!). Just go out right after a storm before the roads get salted or stick to side roads that don't get salt.

[Tom Wesenberg]

40 Delux is so right. My 99 Olds looks like new except 2 years ago the brake lines rusted out and last year the rocker panels rusted through from the inside out.

Sure wish I had my camera a month ago. I saw an Olds wagon from the early 80's (I think) that had every exterior panel 90% gone from rust. You could see all the window and door latch mechanisms, and there were no exterior fenders left. There wasn't enough sheet metal to tell what year the car was, and I wasn't even sure it was an Olds..........maybe it was a Buick wagon.

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Don't forget that salt spray from passing cars will get blasted into every nook and cranny that these rust-proofing products never reach-salt spray will hit the windows and run down into the doors and quarter panels, into the windshield hinge and make you wonder why you can't open the windshield next summer, under the running board matting, and so on. Salt water will wick into crevices that plain water won't, plus when you hit the car with the high pressure wand at the car wash you are driving the salt deeper into body seams, etc.
A's are great fun to drive in the snow plus you can impress your buddies with just how much snow they will go through (you don't need no stinkin' front wheel drive!). Just go out right after a storm before the roads get salted or stick to side roads that don't get salt.

Another example of a reply that didn't directly answer the OP's question, but added considerable value to the discussion and potentially did many of us a service! (...but not me, snow-free downunder, where the only salt that gets on my car blows in off the ocean!)

Thanks, pgerhardt and 40 Deluxe, for keeping it interesting around here!

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I've used that Fjexseal spray can that gets advertised on TV demonstrated to seal a screen in the bottom of a boat, I buy it in the Supermarket and it seals well to a dry surface, remains flexible and is impressive stuff. Sprayed under my everyday drivers, time will tell.

[40 Deluxe]

Another observation on salt-proofing products: I worked for 27 years at the Arizona DOT in Flagstaff. They switched from cinders to salt about 15-20 years ago (we get 100 inches or more of snow in a year, plus occasional freezing rain). Our equipment immediately began rusting out. Over the years we tried various products-some were pretty high-dollar but nothing works. The salt gets into joints and seams, etc. and goes to work doing what's called "jacking". Truck frames often have plates bolted on for reinforcement or snowplow mounts. Salt gets between them and the resulting rust actually expands and forces, or "jacks" the plates apart with enough force to snap bolts! Pickups have holes rusted in the floor under the gas pedal from salt tracked in by the drivers.
The biggest problems are ELECTRICAL. Salt gets in wiring connections, light sockets, splices and places you wouldn't believe. Any slight nick in insulation or a defective splice, and I would be down at the shop at 2 AM hunting for the rotten wire. Copper wires, salt water and electrical current together is a sure recipe for failure!
These are all trouble spots where no anti-rust product does any good.

[bikejunk]

Originally Posted by pgerhardt

I thought this was a place where we share our experiences so that other can benefit. Since the question involved driving an A through the winter, and I have had much experience driving an old Ford (with basically the same suspension as the A) in winter weather, I shared my experience. I am sorry you felt it was a waist of time.

BTW to others who stray from just answering a question technically to share your experiences, please keep doing so. I enjoy sharing in all your experiences, and feel it adds color and context to what may have been a dry question/answer thread.

plus 2

[eagle]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Another observation on salt-proofing products: I worked for 27 years at the Arizona DOT in Flagstaff. They switched from cinders to salt about 15-20 years ago (we get 100 inches or more of snow in a year, plus occasional freezing rain). Our equipment immediately began rusting out. Over the years we tried various products-some were pretty high-dollar but nothing works. The salt gets into joints and seams, etc. and goes to work doing what's called "jacking". Truck frames often have plates bolted on for reinforcement or snowplow mounts. Salt gets between them and the resulting rust actually expands and forces, or "jacks" the plates apart with enough force to snap bolts! Pickups have holes rusted in the floor under the gas pedal from salt tracked in by the drivers.
The biggest problems are ELECTRICAL. Salt gets in wiring connections, light sockets, splices and places you wouldn't believe. Any slight nick in insulation or a defective splice, and I would be down at the shop at 2 AM hunting for the rotten wire. Copper wires, salt water and electrical current together is a sure recipe for failure!
These are all trouble spots where no anti-rust product does any good.

Its no fun living in MN where the roads are heavily salted from Oct until May. I have had good luck with the LPS rust inhibitor but NOTHING works 100%. I am looking forward to the new aluminum F150. Yeah aluminum can corrode but nothing like steel rusts.