Rear axle seals

[clocey]

I need a little help and advice. I have not gotten my Fordor on the road yet since I am slowly working through the mechanics to make sure things are safe and sound. Today I pulled the left rear hub off to check and inspect the brake pads and to install new springs (I recently completed this on the right side).
While I cleaned a very little amount of grease out of the right side, the left side is ENTIRELY COVERED with grease/oil. I have already bought new grease seals for the inside of the hubs, I am wondering if there is another seal in the axle tube near the differential that I should be worried about.
Thanks for all your help and I will likely hold off ordering any brake pads or anything until after the Iola swap meet as I am hoping to visit and possible buy what I need there.

Curt

[jw hash]

the only other seals is inside the axle housing on the the axle. and when you put your hub back on there is a seal washer that goes on the axle under the washer.

[Great Lakes Greg]

I think somebody got overzealous greasing the bearing through the grease fitting at the end of the axle tube. I think it was Tom Endy who suggested that the seal at the end of the tube is more for keeping wheel bearing grease out of the differential, than keeping lube in the axle.

[Marshall V. Daut]

There's a difference between grease and oil for the differential. In most cases, you will find that what has gooed up the inside of the brake drum is not grease from the outer bearings. It's usually the fluid lube from inside the differential that has leaked past the outer seal in the torque tube. That means there are two distinctly different seals to worry about - the rear hub's bearing seal and the outer seal in the axle housing, one each. These outer seals in the axle housing are hard to change, requiring the housings be removed. So, a lot of guys don't bother to change them, or simply don't know they are there and need to be replaced. The result is what you have encountered - a VERY common situation found in unrestored Model A's or ones that received only a perfunctory "restoration". I say that this mess is usually not caused by over-greasing the outer hub bearing because when pumping in the grease, excess grease will squeeze back through the zerk fitting, alerting the mechanic that there's enough grease inside. Should some excess ooze out into the drum anyway, it will create an ugly mess when it mixes with the sure-to-be-there differential lube oil.
Put some of the goo on your finger and smell it. If it stinks, it's rear end fluid, preferably 600w. Modern lubes should have some odor, too, while the bearing grease is usually odorless. Not a fun repair, but a necessary one, as leaked fluid inside the brake drums will reduce the efficiency of the brakes.
Marshall

[clocey]

Marshall
It is gear lube and I was thinking there must be another seal. Do I need to pull the rear axle to service the seal? Do I need to worry about re-shimming the rear diff?
One of these days we need to get together since we live so close!

Curt

[Marshall V. Daut]

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Curt -
Yes, the axle housings must come off to replace these outer seals. Not one of Ford's better design ideas. That means the rear spring must be spread and the hangers removed so that each housing can be unbolted and taken off for servicing. I'd do just one side at a time. Be sure to drain whatever fluid is still in the banjo housing before starting or you'll have one heck of a mess on the garage floor! You'll also need to remove the rear brake drums/hubs, which could be a bear if they haven't been off in the last 25 years. A special puller is usually required to do this.
No, removing the housings shouldn't mess up the lateral bearing pre-loads, unless the gaskets tear as the housings are separated from the banjo. Disassemble the axle housing(s) first and see if the gaskets are destroyed. You may need to order other parts besides the two seals and possibly new gaskets. When the driver's side axle housing is off, pull out the axles with ring gear to examine them for chips or bad teeth. Naturally, the passenger's side brake drum and axle key must first be removed before doing this. This is a good opportunity to check out your car's differential to see what needs to be repaired/replaced. It sounds as if the previous owner/"restorer" didn't do jack sh*t in regards to rear end RESTORATION (spraying new exterior black paint doesn't count), since the seals were obviously not replaced. What else didn't he do in there if he didn't bother to replace known wear items such as the outer seals? You may be pleasantly surprised what's inside or alternately aghast at the poor workmanship you inherited from previous owners. My bet is that ring gear and possibly pinion gear teeth are chipped and/or deeply pitted. I hope not, but brace yourself just in case...
Marshall

[clocey]

Thanks Marshall. My understanding is this car is unrestored and was last licensed in 1941 and last driven in the early '70's. I would assume I am the first to get into this axle since it was assembled 80 years ago. I have already taken the right side drum and back plate completely apart and cleaned the grime off of it.
I am heading to the Iola show in a few weeks and I would assume there are a few vendors there so I will buy the gaskets as I already bought the inner seals (by accident since I thought I was buying the hub seals). I will also see if I can find a spring spreader there.

Thanks for the advice
Curt

[Tom Wesenberg]

Curt, where and when is the Iowa show, and will there be a swap meet with it?

[Marshall V. Daut]

Curt -
I have the rear spring spreader and rear hub puller for the other side if you need them, as well as the outer seal seating tool. Let me know when you need them. DON'T BUY THESE TOOLS!!! Spend the money elsewhere on your car.
Marshall

[clocey]

Tom
The Iola oldcar show and swap meet is July 10-13 in central Wisconsin. http://iolaoldcarshow.com/

Marshall
I have a hub puller from a previous project but I do not have a spring spreader. If this is something I can rent or borrow it would save me a ton of money.

Curt

[Marshall V. Daut]

Curt -
I'll loan you mine.
Marshall