Removing the double race in the banjo...help

[Curt Campbell]

I am having a hell of a time removing the large double bearing race in the banjo. Pressing...puller...nothing is working and i am afraid of mis-shaping the banjo if i do anymore pressing.

Any ideas? I have removed LOTS of races but none this bad. And no...I have not yet purchased the $150 deluxe pinion puller set. Pinion shaft is out.

Help!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!

[Curt Campbell]

Have tom endys article on differential restoratio n.

[d.j. moordigian]

Are you trying to save it?......or is it junk?

[Joe K]

I have always done it with the driveshaft in place, and by pushing the driveshaft/pinion assembly out of the banjo with a hydraulic cylinder/powerpac.

I can see where you might tend to bend (or more likely crack) the banjo if it meets with severe resistance.

Maybe strongbacks across either side of the banjo such that they resist the action of the cylinder and yet allow the race to exit?

This what I keep odd lengths of 4" channel and 3/4 allthread for.

And you are talking the common garden variety of pinion assembly - the earliest As had a different setup of which I'm not as familiar.

Joe K

[Curt Campbell]

This is late 31 Tudor. I need to save it.

[Curt Campbell]

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As suggested in the article i have...i put bars thru the banjo under the bearing area...no pressure on other parts of the banjo. Went up to 25 tons pressing the race using a piece of 5/8 plate slightly smaller that race. Done same with sll kinds of races...never had this trouble. IF i could get my die grinder inside the race hole i would simply slice through the race and pop it out. Ugh!

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Curt Campbell

As suggested in the article i have...i put bars thru the banjo under the bearing area...no pressure on other parts of the banjo. Went up to 25 tons pressing the race using a piece of 5/8 plate slightly smaller that race. Done same with sll kinds of races...never had this trouble. IF i could get my die grinder inside the race hole i would simply slice through the race and pop it out. Ugh!

This one of those cases where I wish I owned a 'hollow ram' for the powerpac. One could use a length of pipe as standoff, a bridge, and a piece of allthread and a disk to pull the bearing cups.

Alas, I keep checking Ebay, but the hollow rams start about $250 and work their way up in price from there.

Joe K

[d.j. moordigian]

[QUOTE=Curt Campbell;843857 IF i could get my die grinder inside the race hole i would simply slice through the race and pop it out. Ugh![/QUOTE]

If you don't care about the race,...then weld in the ID of the race,
too shrink the OD. It will fall out when cool...

Dudley

[Curt Campbell]

Thank you dudley....i have a new race to put in. I will try that

[Joe K]

And should your methodology fail, there is always a buy it now on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MODEL-A-FORD...r#ht_893wt_918

Heh. I see he had problems removing his race too.

Joe K

[oj]

Is the '31 banjo special? I have a nice model 'a' banjo section I'll never use, let me know if you need it.

[28ACoupe]

Pack the race with dry ice and let it sit for a minute or two, then apply a little heat to the outside of the case with a torch(it won't take much) and the race should just about fall out.

[Curt Campbell]

Tried all except dry ice....including slicing it....will not come out. I dont know the hell is wrong.

[redmodelt]

Even with the proper KRW tool some of those cups can be a real bear. Tom turned a plug that fits down in the cavity and rest on the lip of the bearing from the inside. If you can set the banjo between the rails of your press with the plug resting a a good piece of channel. You don't want to put any pressure on the housing except the lip where the torque tube bolt to and the cup. Now install several evenly spaced 3 inch bolts in the holes that the torque tube bolts to so they are all about the same height. Put a plate of maybe 1/2 on top of the plate to press against. Now try pressing it out.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

you tried Dudley's idea and it did not work?? Thats always worked for me.

Weld a deep penetrating, high voltage bead around the inside circumference on both race faces. I suspect your race was set in with a bearing locking agent like the green locktite. They require heat to release them. Additionally, the two circumferential welds should shrink the race significantly.

[garyaodell]

I cut the race with a peanut grinder and a narrow cut off wheel, then drove it out from inside with a drift. My race was stopped on the inside of the banjo housing, there was no way I could of driven to the inside.

[Tom Endy]

This is the tool I use. I cut off the pinion gear end of a trashed drive shaft with the pinion gear and rear bearing still installed. I had a hole bored through a thick piece of steel slightly smaller than the drive shaft and sawed it in half after drilling four holes in it. This is the important part of the tool. Once the block is clamped around the cut off drive shaft stub with the four bolts it will not budge. The two, big steel plates are used as a pusher. One is placed against the torque tube flange, the other has holes drilled and threaded for large bolts that do the pushing against the block of steel. The tool will easily remove a stubborn double race from a banjo. If you lived near by I would invite you to stop by and I could probably have it out in about ten minutes.

I would advise against trying to push it out from the inside. You can easily distort the banjo doing that. A number of the early how to books suggest using a small bottle jack on the inside.

Tom Endy

[Curt Campbell]

I heated the race almost red hot...nothing. i sliced it...nothing. i welded the inside...nothing. i never pressed
from inside for fear of mishaping the banjo. Used rod rods and 3/16 hardned tubing under the bearing when pressing...bent tubing like butter.

I simply am at a loss on this one. Dont own the kit you have.

[dave in australia]

As the pinnion is out, run a few beads of weld around the inside of the race. MIG or arc, doesn't matter. This will pull in the race, and hopefully it will be enough to loosen it up.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

This is the tool I use. I cut off the pinion gear end of a trashed drive shaft with the pinion gear and rear bearing still installed. I had a hole bored through a thick piece of steel slightly smaller than the drive shaft and sawed it in half after drilling four holes in it. This is the important part of the tool. Once the block is clamped around the cut off drive shaft stub with the four bolts it will not budge. The two, big steel plates are used as a pusher. One is placed against the torque tube flange, the other has holes drilled and threaded for large bolts that do the pushing against the block of steel. The tool will easily remove a stubborn double race from a banjo. If you lived near by I would invite you to stop by and I could probably have it out in about ten minutes.

I would advise against trying to push it out from the inside. You can easily distort the banjo doing that. A number of the early how to books suggest using a small bottle jack on the inside.

Tom Endy

I like very much Tom's rig - very much as I proposed using a hollow powerpac cylinder (which I don't own). The only critique I could make is that the pinion/bearing will act as a "wedge" and may pin the bearing in the housing.

Instead catch the "lip" of the cone and pull out directly.

Joe K