Identifying Early 21 Stud Flathead Motors

[rhpope]

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the 32/33 motors and the later 34-37 21 stud motors? Did all 21 stud motors have water pumps in the heads? Which 21 stud motors came with aluminum heads and which 21 stud motors came with cast iron heads(was this early vs. late)?

[4tford]

These two links to Mac Van Pelt site may help

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...chart32-36.jpg

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...te_1937-38.jpg

[Charlie Stephens]

This might help:

Identification of the early flatheads is best approached in terms of the block. There is an unbelievable amount of interchangeability for the accessories over the years. Count the number of head studs.
1) If there are 17 studs it is a V8 60 used in vehicles between 1937 and 1940. This engine was also used in the French built Simca in the sixties but I don’t know what occurred between these two periods. Look for casting numbers and stamped steel water jackets in the side of the block. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
2) If there are 21 studs the block was built 1932 to 1938. The transition to 24 studs was late in 1938. Check the water petcocks on the front of the block next to where the lower hose from the radiator enters either an inlet fitting (1936 and earlier) or the water pump (1937 and later). It the petcocks point straight down it is a 1932 block. If the block is not a 1932 next look for a vent from the crankcase area out through the front corner of the oil pan. If there is no vent the block is 1933-34. If there is a vent it is 1935 or later. As a matter of interest, the 1936 engines were the first to use insert bearings. Both insert and babbitt bearings were used throughout 1936. The insert bearing engines can be identified by LB cast at the top of the left front face of the block or by the letters LB stamped into the surface where the intake manifold attaches. Some engines were not stamped and in other cases people tried to inflate the price of their blocks by stamping LB into them when they were sold. Be careful. Now check for the location of the water pumps. If the water pumps mount on the block the engine is 1937 or later. All engines beginning in 1937 were inserts. Frequently you will encounter a 1937 block with factory block off plates held on by two bolts over the water pump passage at the front of the block as it was common for Ford dealers to install this engine as a replacement in the earlier cars. Of course there will be slight transition periods at model change over with the older blocks usually going into the commercial vehicles. There may be subtle differences between the 1933-34 and the 1935-36 engines but I am knowledgeable enough about these years to know what they are. The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will also help identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
3) If there are 24 studs the engine was produced between late 1938 and 1953 (1954 in Canada). If the distributor is mounted on the front of the block the engine is late 1938 through 1948 (1947 for trucks). If the distributor comes up at an angle and appears more like a modern distributor it is a 1949 (1948 for truck) through 1953 (1954 in Canada). The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will further identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine.
4) There are a lot of additional foreign and industrial applications of these engines but the preceding covers the domestic US automobile production.

Charlie Stephens

[4tford]

WOW, well put Charlie

[David J]

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Pull up the thread by 38coupe titled " engine block I.D. pictures as he did a lot of work to bring this info here and it will answer your questions . BTW early blocks are really 32 & 33-34 . Not 32-33 & 34-37. On the cast-V-aluminum heads 32's were cast , 33-34 passenger cars were aluminum and 35-36 could be either way . Oddly 33-34 trucks had cast . There are of course some variations to some of this but this was the norm .

Originally Posted by rhpope

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the 32/33 motors and the later 34-37 21 stud motors? Did all 21 stud motors have water pumps in the heads? Which 21 stud motors came with aluminum heads and which 21 stud motors came with cast iron heads(was this early vs. late)?