Engine number identification

[Brother Hesekiel]

Greetings, y'all!

Just 8 days ago I bought my first Model A, a '31 Deluxe Roadster, from an older gentleman in Long Beach, California. After 2-months long negotiations, I paid $14,500 for it; he just wouldn't take less.



The car is somewhat modified in that it has juice brakes, 16" wire wheels, a '39 "synchro" transmission, tube shocks, an F-100 steering box, and a Borg-Warner overdrive.



I like the brakes, the tranny and the overdrive, but I'll get rid of the wheels eventually and change the incorrect color to black. But that's not what I'm asking here.



My engine number and the VIN is LB11322. The seller told me that this indicates that the engine -- and thus the car -- were produced in Long Beach, California. I tried to find any Web site confirming this, such as this one (http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm) but to no avail.

Can anybody tell me what the engine code LB means and if the engine number will allow me to narrow down the car's production date?

Thanks,

Bernard

[lookin-backtexas]

The original engine number would have had a "star" followed an "A" prefix followed by a number and then another "star." It appears that your engine was rebuilt and it was common that rebuilders would grind off the original number pad and restamp it with his own number.

Your Roadster is a 1931 and its original engine number would have been between 4,237,501 and 4,830,806.

Since your engine number is no longer available, the only way to narrow down the month of manufacture would be the frame number which is stamped on top of the driver's side of the frame near where the front body bolts are attached. Unfortunately, the only way to see the number is to raise the body off the frame. The frame number was originally stamped on the assembly line to match the factory installed engine number.

[Kurt in NJ]

That is probably a # for a rebuild, or replacement engine, to find the real original # you would probably have to lift up the body to see what is stamped on the frame ---what # is on the title?

Are the brake pipes just "hanging out" across near the front axle? ---too bad about having modified brakes, I like the reliability and superior function of properly restored original mechanical brakes.

[Steve Plucker]

Go to my website, www.plucks329s.org then go to Additional Studies, then go to Letters, Numbers and Codes...there you can learn a few things about your car.

If you do not know the TRUE history about the car, then it is all for nothing.

Start with the assembly plant codes and letters...what assembly plant did it come from?

Was this car a complete, original car before restoration OR a part here...a part there assembled car?

Get a copy of the MARC/MAFCA Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards if you really want to pin-point your cars window of production...again, providing the last guy who restored it did also.

Pluck

[Russell in Tulsa]

I believe that's a'29 oil pan on the engine also.

[Ron in Quincy]

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Bernard,

LB engine numbers indicate engines built by Long Beach Ford. RF engine numbers indicate engines that were built Richmond Ford.

Ford used new blocks when building these replacement engines; they also used a "A" Crankshaft and most of the engines I have seen will have a "B" Camshaft which provides a faster opening and closing of the valves in comparison to the "A" Camshaft.

DMV in California accept the engine number as the VIN on early Fords; In past years if a person changed the engine on a Ford built in the 1930's it required the new engine number to be reported to DMV so the Owner Certificate could be corrected.

Hope this helps,

Ron

Forget to mention that all the RF and LB original blocks I have seen are Diamond Blocks.

[Mike V. Florida]

Forget the wheels and color. Save the money for gas and drive the hell out of it!!!!!

[Brother Hesekiel]

Oh, Mike, I'm driving it, but to me the car looks a bit too purdy, to . . . um . . . gay. I like black (a stock color for '31 DeLuxe Roadsters), black wheels, blackwall tires, and black leather (have a super large hide stacked away for this).
Kind of like this:
(Okay, it's a few months younger.)

But back to my engine number which is LBII322. The title translates it into the VIN LB11322.



Looks like it's been restamped, huh?

[ctlikon0712]

Yes, a restamp. All US numbers start with a star then the prefix A or AA then the number and at the end another star.....

[d.j. moordigian]

Is there a possibility/chance that number "LB11322" is the body number on
the cross sill....if it is a Long Beach car. Brother Hesekiel, check the cross sill
were the seat platform is riveted too the sill.

[plind]

Originally Posted by Brother Hesekiel

Looks like it's been restamped, huh?

it is a restamp.. You can se the machine have moved the orig nr.pad.. And there after stamp the number

[Charlie Stephens]

After you allow for color shifts from the digital camera and the computer monitor it is hard to tell exactly what you have. If I remember correctly there is a correct color combination, that I like, involving orange wheels and a body color about like yours with an orange pin stripe. It may be a cabriolet only color combination so check it out i the MAFCA/MARC paint book. Those whitewalls look old, check the archives about old tires, they have a definite age limit. I would think you could trade those rims almost strait across for the correct ones.

Charlie Stephens

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by ctlikon0712

Yes, a restamp. All US numbers start with a star then the prefix A or AA then the number and at the end another star.....

And Plind...

I do not think it is a restamp! It is a later, much later block than the production year blocks.

I think this "block" and it's engine number pad and stamped letters and numbers are original to the block.

If I am not mistaken...all of the "production" blocks through the Model A years did not have that "curve" as we see on the lower right corner of the pad...but more of a square???

Please correct me if I am wrong on this observation.

Pluck

[Tom Wesenberg]

Pluck the curve is from the cutting tool, as the number pad is now recessed due to such a deep cut. I have a block the same way.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Pluck the curve is from the cutting tool, as the number pad is now recessed due to such a deep cut. I have a block the same way.

I second that.

[Steve Plucker]

OK guys...I will buy that one.

If you look real close at the last "2"...is that a "star" I see or is it my imagination?

I kind of see 3 of the 5 points.

Pluck

[Kurt in NJ]

With that much milled off it is possible it is the second time that the number has been changed ---the first time the pad has the # taken off there is still some of the pad showing most times

[ctlikon0712]

Pluck the curve is from the cutting tool, as the number pad is now recessed due to such a deep cut. I have a block the same way.

That is what I saw also. It is a cut path from an end mill or shell mill. It was then restamped. The numbers weren’t even held together in a fixture to keep them lined up. They vary in their placement. No one has commented on the "1"s actually being the letter "I"s either........... Its not an A #.

[700rpm]

A friend just bought an engine last night that has an LB number on it. I don't think either of these is a restamp unless it was a factory rebuild.

[Tom Wesenberg]

In reply #8 the wiring clamp in the bottom picture on the water inlet looks like the clamp for the 28-9 firewall clamp used with the steel tubing on the generator wire.