CHARGE! Too much?

[sethkestenbaum]

At my powerhouse three-brush generator's lowest setting my ammeter is reading +12 amps. I suspect that this should be closer to +2 amps. Why is this happening and what should I do?

So far I have:

1) cleaned/retightened/checked for resistance all the connections between the battery and the starter (excepting removing the generator bolt to sand down the bolt hole and removing the instrument panel to get to the back of the ammeter),

2) put the battery on my slow charger after checking the cells for water (once the battery is fully charged I will hydrometer and load test it).

I am still getting a +12 charge at the lowest setting. If I increase the setting the charge gets higher.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[MikeK]

I suspect your battery was quite discharged. The state-of-charge will determine how much amperage a battery takes at a set voltage. With a hydrometer reading of 1.265 on all cells (~95+% charge) you should be able to get the third-brush setting to +2 amps. If you're at 1.100 SG (about 20% charge) the battery will take a lot of amps with the same third brush setting.

[Mike V. Florida]

I too suspect the battery is the problem. The current you see on the ampmeter that the generator or even an alternator puts out has to be going somewhere. If the headlamps are not blowing out then my guess in the battery.

[al's28/33]

Get Tom Wesenberg in on this, he will be able to help troubleshoot the issue. He installed his EVR units in two separate gennys for me. That may be what you need Seth, especially if you drive at night and use the lights, that will help eliminate you having to manually adjust that 3rd brush.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I couldn't get my powerhouse down to where it should be until I installed my EVR. As Mike said, the battery has a lot to do with the charge. After charging the battery and taking a hydrometer reading, and if the hydrometer reading is good, then I'd install the voltage regulator. The EVR is one worthwhile upgrade for the Model A's.

[sethkestenbaum]

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Battery is charged to full with a trickle charger and allowed to sit for an hour. Hydrometer shows that all is well. Same +12 amp charge. I took a set of jumper cables and "doubled up" the ground from the frame to the bell housing behind the starter. It is my understanding that this sometimes helps. Same +12 amp charge. Jumped the on/off switch in case that was causing resistance. Same +12 amp charge.

Tom, I can't imagine that the lowest setting on the powerhouse is +12. What should it be at the lowest setting?

All, Any thoughts/suggestions? from a weak battery or resistance in the system, what else could cause this?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Have you tried both directions on the adjustable brush, to be sure it's now in the lowest position?

I have a feeling you won't get the charge low enough without a voltage regulator. I couldn't get my powerhouse to charge less than about 8 amps until I installed my EVR.

[Joe K]

As I understand it, the "powerhouse" generators are quite "robust." Both mechanically and electrically. Ford had in mind actual powerhouse dynamos when he designed it.

And you don't see too many things go wrong with a PH. Generally they're considered a "run for life" sort of machine.

I can't imagine that there isn't a "neutral point" somewhere in the brush travel where voltage is "less" and corresponding amperage to the battery would be less.

Your high amperage would normally be indicative of low voltage at the battery. If you have the 1.265 or above hydrometer reading indicated by Mike above, then that indicates that your battery is fully charged. If you read say 7.2 volts on the battery alone, then this confirms it. And it rules out a shorted plate or other matter internal to the battery (which would make the hydrometer reading correct for two and possibly all three cells.)

Check your Ammeter by a separate meter? In nuclear plants they don't question the instrumentation. But let's face it, the Ford Ammeters are kind of a cheap thing designed to double as a fuse on system overload.

I guess I would play around with it some more? Or maybe trade the battery in for a new battery? This a crummy way to deal with technical problems but it does get the job done. Or take this a step at a time and have the service guru do a "load test" of the fully charged battery to verify it's up to snuff? Load test is basically the proof of the pudding to any battery: any issues with cell charging/chemistry/full charge could be seen by a diminution on the load test.

I'm watching this with interest since I just bought a three brush generator as a "buy it now" on Ebay. This will be a replacement PH for the PH that I felt my March 29 truck had originally but had been replaced by Mr. Delco and Mr. Remy at some point in the truck's life.

And yes, I would be interested in an EVR. Pushing brushes around when the temperature falls below 30 degrees is not my idea of fun.

Joe K

[sethkestenbaum]

All connection points are checked as clean. I didn't trace the voltage, but continuity is good. I even removed the generator and brushed/sanded that mount. I just picked up a new battery to take home, swap out , and check. My old battery seems to be taking a good charge and tested well, but I figured it was worth trying and I can return the battery to autozone if I don't need it.

[Tom Wesenberg]

How old is the battery in the car?
Also, how many cranking amps is it?

[kb]

How do I buy a EVR for my 3 brush powerhouse?

[sethkestenbaum]

The battery that came with the car is of unknown age; however, it looks young. It is an Autocraft Farm & Truck 1-1 6 volt, 770CCR/625CCR. I know it is at least 2 years old and suspect that it was put in the car shortly before I purchased her. The battery seems to cranks well and from my novice eyes seems to maintain charge and takes a lot to run low.

When I return to the car in a few hours I plan on installing the new battery and see if that helps. If the battery swap doesn't do the trick, I may swap out the generator to my backup 5-brush powerhouse and see if that helps. If the two powerhouses both give me high output, then perhaps it is time to go back to checking the wiring.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by kb

How do I buy a EVR for my 3 brush powerhouse?

Ditto Tom

Thanks,
Joe K

[sethkestenbaum]

EVRs aside (and Tom is "The Man"), the new battery made no real difference and the old battery load tested fine. I'm now futzing around with the installed 3-brush. After the engine cools, I will probably put on the 5-brush and see what that does. If there is no change, the car will have to sit for the week as I am out of weekend time and have work that needs to be done.

Thoughts? Tom, is there anything on the three-brush itself that I can/should check that would cause this?

[sethkestenbaum]

Ok, the "back up" generator was put it. It started PERFECT, then within about 30 seconds started to catch up in charge rate (I assume it "self-cleaned" and the output went to match the car). The 5-brush was slightly lower than the 3-brush when both were at their lowest settings.

Here is where I am at:
1) the battery is not the problem - the old one was load tested and a fresh new battery was also tested.
2) the generator is not the problem - the normal and back up are both over-amping a little.
3) the wiring seems ok - I traced continuity, cleaned/tightened 9 points, tried an extra ground, etc.

What's next?

[Mitch//pa]

did you ck things with a known good external meter?

[Bob Brown]

What is a evr ?

[sethkestenbaum]

Mitch, I don't have an external ammeter -- just the one in the car. I may try to pick one up or borrow one next week. How was the CT event? (I think you mentioned that you were considering going there)

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Bob Brown

What is a evr ?

electronic voltage regulator

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by sethkestenbaum

Mitch, I don't have an external ammeter -- just the one in the car. I may try to pick one up or borrow one next week. How was the CT event? (I think you mentioned that you were considering going there)

had a great time at the ct meet , ck the pics i posted on another thread..

i never adjust things without a good ext multi meter. i use a fluke good but pricey.
you could be pissing in the wind