Good photo of Skip's impeller?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

Now can we go hunt some ducks ?
Charlie ny

Charlie:

This thread may go down in the record books...

Tim

[G.M.]

Tim thanks for posting the pictures. I have been working on my house for over a month and have only stopped by the shop for a few minutes to pick up tools. Henry originally asked for pictures of various impellers not a pump which I have sitting here at home for months and haven't got around to it yet. I made dozens of impellers over the years trying to improve the flow, some looked really good but had no increase in flow one of these might appeal to Henry? As soon as I put the modified 36 impeller on the machine I knew it would work. I only made one and put it on the right side of my 33 phaeton and it cooled the right side 25 or 30 degrees cooler than the left side. I put this pump on the left side and it now cooled the left side 25 to 30 degrees cooler than the right side. Again I tried numerous 39 type impeller improvements with very little or no change and gave up for a few years. Then I had the turbine idea and spent a week making one impeller and bingo it almost doubled the flow. I only made one and knew it worked on the test machine. I don't remember if I even tried it on and engine, I don't think I did. I sent the prototype to a pattern maker and had an 8 or 10 impeller mold made. Henry I was so sure it would work I put my money up, much more than $200.00 The result was an increase in flow from 65 gallons on a stock pump to 110 gallons. I gave Skip the patterns, let him use my shop, tools, the phone, electric and I am not a partner and receive no money from his coil and pump earnings. He helps me once in a while if I need help but he stays busy and I try not to bother him. I told Skip when he started that he could make a thousand good coils and nobody hears about them but make one bad one and the whole world hears about it. He don't rush to get his products shipped, every parts is done right and tested even though he is paid before he does the job, if he has any doubt he does it over. There are few who didn't like the way I promoted his parts over the years but it was a 2 sided promotion. One it got business for Skip but the main result was it helped 25 or 30,000 people with old Fords all over the world be able to drive them without the fear of getting stuck on the road. I took the heckling because I knew what the end result would be. G.M.

[Charlie ny]

GM,
We are the fortunate ones....those who know your story....you've done
much for lots more than just us old Ford guys.
Hope to see you in Gettysburg in '14.
Charlie ny

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Seem to recall that someone on this forum mentioned that one of the requirements for using Skip's pumps is that thermostats not be used.
So if removing your thermostats solved your problem, why would you need Skip's pumps?

Right on! Just sent Skip this email:

"Do you have a recommendation as to whether or not to use a thermostat with your pumps? i.e. can the engine get the advantage of the increased flow from your pumps with the thermostats left in or do they need to come out to really benefit?"

This was his reponse:

"Any modern thermostats I have seen for 32 to 48 engines have small flow openings restricting the flow of water. If the flow is restricted there is no use buying my pumps."

The only alternative he had was to use Bob Shewman's 180° high flow thermostats.

So, if you want to use Ford's recommended 160° thermostats on your 32-48 engines there's no reason to buy Skip's pumps. Looks like you'll get better flow with a stock or C&G pump without a thermostat than you will with Skip's pumps and the currently available 160° thermostat.

So, looks like I'll just keep doing what I've been doing - keep using the pump I've got and remove the thermostat in the summer to increase flow and put it back in for winter for the heater to work better.

Case closed. (Whew . . . that took some time and effort but I found out what I wanted to know. It was certainly worth the effort for me. Sorry if it bothered anyone else.)

Thanks again for everyone's input, especially Skip's very honest and frank response. (Looks like he really is as nice a guy as everyone says.)

[Ken Bull]

I did my water pumps & coil with Skip & been running good since 9/2009. Satisfied ! I dont use thermostats but I live in Florida

[Tinker]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Disclaimer (legal mumbo-gumbo): I don't know Skip personally.

Skip has done 3 coils for me. I don't worry about them now when the engine is hot (180-190), they don't fail anymore. Also rebuilt and dialed in my my 36coupe dizzy.

Need to have him rebuild my waterpumps on my 38. Bought pumps from a big vender, before I did research, and they have a leak in the propeller shaft when its run. Leak is very small, but it was there from the beginning and still leaking today.

Same here, no thermostats.

Use Skips services or don't. But to me it's worth every cent. And all due respect, $212 for two pumps or $83 for a rebuild correct looking coil, is a real deal.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Tim thanks for posting the pictures. I have been working on my house for over a month and have only stopped by the shop for a few minutes to pick up tools. Henry originally asked for pictures of various impellers not a pump which I have sitting here at home for months and haven't got around to it yet. I made dozens of impellers over the years trying to improve the flow, some looked really good but had no increase in flow one of these might appeal to Henry? As soon as I put the modified 36 impeller on the machine I knew it would work. I only made one and put it on the right side of my 33 phaeton and it cooled the right side 25 or 30 degrees cooler than the left side. I put this pump on the left side and it now cooled the left side 25 to 30 degrees cooler than the right side. Again I tried numerous 39 type impeller improvements with very little or no change and gave up for a few years. Then I had the turbine idea and spent a week making one impeller and bingo it almost doubled the flow. I only made one and knew it worked on the test machine. I don't remember if I even tried it on and engine, I don't think I did. I sent the prototype to a pattern maker and had an 8 or 10 impeller mold made. Henry I was so sure it would work I put my money up, much more than $200.00 The result was an increase in flow from 65 gallons on a stock pump to 110 gallons. I gave Skip the patterns, let him use my shop, tools, the phone, electric and I am not a partner and receive no money from his coil and pump earnings. He helps me once in a while if I need help but he stays busy and I try not to bother him. I told Skip when he started that he could make a thousand good coils and nobody hears about them but make one bad one and the whole world hears about it. He don't rush to get his products shipped, every parts is done right and tested even though he is paid before he does the job, if he has and doubt he does it over. There are few who didn't like the way I promoted his parts over the years but it was a 2 sided promotion. One it got business for Skip but the main result was it helped 25 or 30,000 people with old Fords all over the world be able to drive them without the fear of getting stuck on the road. I took the heckling because I knew what the end result would be. G.M.

Don't see any mention of whether thermostats were installed or not.
After seeing this quote attributed to Skip himself,"Any modern thermostats I have seen for 32 to 48 engines have small flow openings restricting the flow of water. If the flow is restricted there is no use buying my pumps."
I wonder why this was left out of the equation?

[Shadetree]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

GM,
We are the fortunate ones....those who know your story....you've done
much for lots more than just us old Ford guys.
Hope to see you in Gettysburg in '14.
Charlie ny

I second this. When I first went on the old Fordbarn I was impressed with GM's posts and the knowledge and results of his testing that he shared. Thanks GM!

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

Don't see any mention of whether thermostats were installed or not.
After seeing this quote attributed to Skip himself,"Any modern thermostats I have seen for 32 to 48 engines have small flow openings restricting the flow of water. If the flow is restricted there is no use buying my pumps."
I wonder why this was left out of the equation?

It's the difference between a salesman and a teacher.

[Tim Ayers]

Having internet problems so I can't post the pictures. Will do as soon as I'm able.

[Andy]

I would be interested in seeing the impellers. I did compressor wheel research at AiResearch in the 60's and so have some experience in wheel design.
I am new to flatheads but I will give my experience. I have 4x 3 5/16 59A engine. It has thermostats and a very aggressive fan. It has never gotten over 180. Stock pumps. I would never run an engine without thermostats as the engine can not ever settle into a stable running temperature.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Having internet problems so I can't post the pictures. Will do as soon as I'm able.

Ah. One more attempt to show Skip's impellers thwarted by the Skip's Pump Phantom!

[Tim Ayers]

OK, here we go. Let me know if you need some more. It's hard to see and tell, but Skip's pumps seem to be machined behind the impeller to minimize the air gap that G.M. was talking about. I could be wrong on this.

[Old Henry]

Thanks Tim. Your pictures are very helpful. They do much to satisfy my sometimes overly inquisitive mind.

[Ross F-1]

What I see is that Skips impeller is what's called a mixed-flow design, while the stocker is a pure (and very simple) centrifugal design. Each type has its advantages and limitations. One of the features of a mixed-flow design is that it doesn't behave nicely if you pinch off the flow nearly completely, that is undoubtedly why Skip has requirements on thermostats.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Thanks Tim. Your pictures are very helpful. They do much to satisfy my sometimes over inquisitive mind.

No problem! Glad to help.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

What I see is that Skips impeller is what's called a mixed-flow design, while the stocker is a pure (and very simple) centrifugal design. Each type has its advantages and limitations. One of the features of a mixed-flow design is that it doesn't behave nicely if you pinch off the flow nearly completely, that is undoubtedly why Skip has requirements on thermostats.

Are you saying that the mixed-flow design is better for creating unrestricted flow but not as good at creating pressure to push through restrictions which the centrifugal pump may well be better at?

[51 MERC-CT]

[QUOTE=Old Henry;653064]
So, looks like I'll just keep doing what I've been doing - keep using the pump I've got and remove the thermostat in the summer to increase flow and put it back in for winter for the heater to work better.
QUOTE]

Was just giving some thought as to what I would consider doing if I had an early ('32-'48) flathead and were in the same situation.
First remove the A.F.R's. (automatic flow regulators), then install M.F.R's.
(manual flow regulators).
The M.F.R's could be in the form of ball valves (no bigger than the I.D. of the head outlets) and located somewhere in the upper hose.
This could be rigged to give control of each side manually from the dash.
Set temp. for normal driving, come to a long hill at altitude, open 'm up.
(Concours types please disregard)

[Chris]

I used Skip's pumps in my 33 pickup, simply because I did not really have another source for the 32-36 pumps. I was so impressed at how it stayed cooled in any condition, that I had a set done for my roadster. I drove that car (59AB with a 4" crank, NO thermostats as the instructions stated, 3 speed and 3.54 gears) to Bonneville and back last year. It was 1500 miles round trip and over 100 degrees most the way. The car never went above 180 except climbing White bird pass and the Lewiston grade...both very long, steep and hot. I will run his pumps in any flathead car I have.



Here is the whole story if anyone is interested.
http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80072

[Straightpipes]

I find the Fordbarn amusing in that many of those who post here fall all over suppliers such as Skip or Richard. If brakes are mentioned they immediatly crow over Richards brake conversion kit. I suppose it's nice, and they do provide a service for those who need these parts. However, he put out a picture of it and I went to work and built an exact copy for my 34' for very minamal cost.
Skip pumps are no exception and can be duplicated with a little CAD work. If someone wanted to copy and retail them it wouldn't be difficult.

Personally, I don't like the design and prefer the original centrifugal style. Henry's pumps have worked fine for me on cross country trips and racing. But, I think they are great for the rest of you purists..