Cooler air induction vs the HEAT WAVE.

[roccaas]

With 141 million Americans living in the 1 million square mile "heat sink", does it make sense to drop the Maze or air filter and run a temporary hose from the carb intake to some site on the front of the car to get "cooler" air until this heat wave breaks?

You could still have vapor lock from the intake manifold/exhaust manifold interaction working on the updraft mixture, but even a few degrees of cooler denser air might help driveability until we get some rain and relief!

[azmodela]

Let's not over think things here. If it's 110 degrees outside, it's still 110 degrees in front of the radiator.

In AZ I've run my car in 120 degree ambient temps with no problems. Would you pull the air filter off of your modern car? I didn't think so...

[Jason in TX]

I believe in pulling the air maze in hot weather. The metal housing of the filter is a few inches from the exhaust manifold......sounds just like a manifold heater, right??

That metal in turn is heating the cast iron carb bowl enough toboil gas in the bowl.

I've personally have had a car slowly loose moe and more power until it died. Popped the scalding hot air maze off and the power returned.

[roccaas]

Originally Posted by azmodela

Let's not over think things here. If it's 110 degrees outside, it's still 110 degrees in front of the radiator.

In AZ I've run my car in 120 degree ambient temps with no problems. Would you pull the air filter off of your modern car? I didn't think so...

But my modern car (Fusion) pulls air from in front of the radiator, not inches from the exhaust down pipe, and with modern FI you don't have a fuel bowl percolating on a hot engine.

On cars with cowl induction or hood scoops you are getting higher pressure and (relatively) cooler air than the rather stilted air under the "A's" hood. I've noticed that since reinstalling the splash guards alongside the oil pan the radiator runs cooler but the firewall is hotter. Where the air could rush out under the engine, now it s trapped around the block, and right at the air intake.

I'm going to try it to see if I can get a little of the "rainy day in Octber" power back.

[1930artdeco]

Have you tried one of the desert water bags(?) They might keep your rad temps down bit.

Mike

[azmodela]

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Originally Posted by roccaas

But my modern car (Fusion) pulls air from in front of the radiator, not inches from the exhaust down pipe, and with modern FI you don't have a fuel bowl percolating on a hot engine.

On cars with cowl induction or hood scoops you are getting higher pressure and (relatively) cooler air than the rather stilted air under the "A's" hood. I've noticed that since reinstalling the splash guards alongside the oil pan the radiator runs cooler but the firewall is hotter. Where the air could rush out under the engine, now it s trapped around the block, and right at the air intake.

I'm going to try it to see if I can get a little of the "rainy day in Octber" power back.

Your modern car pulls from the dead space between the body structure and the fender. That's non-force, ambient temp air. What you're proposing will have little difference on performance. That carb is sucking so much air, it pulls the perceived 'hot' air off of the exhaust manifold whether the air filter is on or off.

The splash pans actually serve to help the cooling process, much like a fan shroud does to the radiator. It's directing the air out of the engine compartment in an organized manner.

This idea is just tinkering, and over thinking on an issue that doesn't exist!

[Milton]

Originally Posted by roccaas

now it s trapped around the block, and right at the air intake.

Re-install the louvers in your hood panels.

Install a water injection system.

[Wick]

I saw the other day a car (not a) going down the road with Dryer duct hose sticking out the drivers window,to pull air into the car. I sure miss the ol Vent windows.
Wick
For the Model a carb,you could run the fuel line thru a "cool can" packed with ice,(race car item)

[Jason in TX]

Tex Willis in the Dallas Club built a PVC pipe "cold air induction" system by putting a 180 degree bend on the throat of the carb, a two foot long tube forward to the front bumper and a funnel like scoop on the end of that.

Dennis Piranio did a dyno test of his truck and actually found a 1-2 percent horsepower INCREASE in this set up. That's actually a 5% gain in horse power if you think about it.

The logic behind a "cold air intake" is sound and has been proven to work.

[azmodela]

A cold air or ram air intake no doubt work, but in the right circumstances.

In A's, the effort isn't worth the gain. To get the effect, this newly created intake has to make a U shaped bend to transition the air from a forward facing pick up to a rear facing carb entry. Due to the location, this tube will be at least two feet in length. When you start to get long lengths and multiple bends, you'll lose a lot of benefit due to the friction created as the forced air travels this path.

Take a look at the cold or forced air systems for modern cars. The path is usually short, straight, and direct.

If you're really interested in cheaper power at the carb, you'll likely see more benefit with a velocity stack on the end of the carb.

I haven't seen the Piranio dyno results that show an improvement over the cold air intake. Without seeing it, I'm suspicious as it's difficult to replicate cold vs stale air or ram are scenarios on a dyno.

[Purdy Swoft]

Its not necessarily cold air but the velosity and pressure of air forced into the throat of the carburetor that has to give a supercharging effect. This is not as much as a blower or a turbo but I believe the Dyno tests.

This is not an exhaust!!! Curves and length will effect flow in the exhaust but will have no effect in a forced air system.

[Bob/Kansas City]

...and just in what part of Missouri did you see THAT?[/QUOTE]

Hey now.....

But seriously, speaking of the desert water bag ... Ya wear that around yer neck in this heat don't ya?

[V4F]

my car has run in below 0* & at over 100* with no cooling or heating problems . good radiator & thermostate works well . but , it would do no damage to get more moving air uder the hood ...................

[CarlG]

I'm told by my parents that on several trips between LA & Waco TX in a in a Model A, when I was but a young thing, air conditioning in the car was to soak a diaper in water and position it inside an open window, producing a "swamp cooler" effect.

[roccaas]

[QUOTE=Jeff/Illinois;242929]

Originally Posted by Wick

I saw the other day a car (not a) going down the road with Dryer duct hose sticking out the drivers window,to pull air into the car. I sure miss the ol Vent windows.


...and just in what part of Missouri did you see THAT?

I saw a small Asian car with a window A\C unit stuck through a plexiglass window in the rear seat in Orangeburg SC only today (heat index 112+). That must take some kind of Inverter to run off of 12Volt.

The purpose of this thread was less to do with radiator heat, but with the aches and pains that my engine feels (as do I) when the weather gets so hot that, "only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun".

independent of Forced Induction, it seems reasonable that any differential to cooler air versus the nuclear furnace of 40 raging horses under the hood would go some small way in making the car run a little easier at 81 years old! She does seem to run much better when the 11 pm temperature is a balmy 80 versus 110 at 4 pm!

[roccaas]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Tex Willis in the Dallas Club built a PVC pipe "cold air induction" system by putting a 180 degree bend on the throat of the carb, a two foot long tube forward to the front bumper and a funnel like scoop on the end of that.

Dennis Piranio did a dyno test of his truck and actually found a 1-2 percent horsepower INCREASE in this set up. That's actually a 5% gain in horse power if you think about it.

The logic behind a "cold air intake" is sound and has been proven to work.

Sorry, I missed the conjunction between the 1-2% increase and the 5% gain? If we are getting into the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, I'll have to go back to the books for a refresher.

[Jason in TX]

Not the second law of thermodynamics... Just 6th grade algebra.

I mis typed when I said 1 - 2 "percent" horsepower. I meant 1 - 2 horsepower.

2 horse power is 5% of Henry's original 40 horses. Therefore me saying gaining 2 more horses on a stock engine would be a 5% increase in horse power.

Besides, why get on the Internet and ask strangers if it "makes sense" if you should remove your air maze. Why not just go to the garage and TRY removing your air maze and let us know your outcome rather than speculating with all us bench racers.

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I'm told by my parents that on several trips between LA & Waco TX in a in a Model A, when I was but a young thing, air conditioning in the car was to soak a diaper in water and position it inside an open window, producing a "swamp cooler" effect.

I hope that wasn't a used diaper, Carl.

When I expect especially hot weather, I take a squirt bottle of water to cool the carbuerator if it boils the gas. Works every time.

I installed a real air conditioner to keep me and my wife cool. The gift that keeps on giving.

[roccaas]

Originally Posted by Jason in TX

Not the second law of thermodynamics... Just 6th grade algebra.

I mis typed when I said 1 - 2 "percent" horsepower. I meant 1 - 2 horsepower.

2 horse power is 5% of Henry's original 40 horses. Therefore me saying gaining 2 more horses on a stock engine would be a 5% increase in horse power.

Besides, why get on the Internet and ask strangers if it "makes sense" if you should remove your air maze. Why not just go to the garage and TRY removing your air maze and let us know your outcome rather than speculating with all us bench racers.

Oh, I pull the maze every Spring along with the manifold heater, and put them on when the frost is on the Pumpkin.

I'm really just trying to see if cooler outside air, by whatever means necessary, might improve daytime running. I'd really expected to see an old black and white photo of some '30's "cold air induction system" that was sold as an accessory from the Ford dealer. I've always wondered why Henry and Edsel didn't design the air intake further away from the exhaust downpipe. With all of the elegant engineering of the car and its systems, it seems strange that they would pull incoming air just inches from the hottest part of the car?? They get plenty of vaporization and emulsification (?) of the charge by co-locating the intake and exhaust manifolds so neatly together.

I see your point about 1-2%. The law of small (displacement and HP) numbers strikes again, and we can use every percentage we can get at 10 HP/cylinder!