Point Alignment

[2speed]

I bought a new top plate(which the points don't fit on the post), I bought a new point block, new points, which are supposedly the new correct length one. I also have a machined point block that supposedly fits the bad points. After mix and matching all the combinations, they don't line up to my satisfaction. I found an old point block, and voila it's perfect.


Are the new parts still no good? This is frustrating as I'm buying new and it just doesn't work. Or just move to the new style points?

[Bob Bidonde]

It would be nice to have a major Model "A" parts person explain why the ignition points are not made correctly, and tell us why they are selling these faulty parts.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

It would be nice to have a major Model "A" parts person explain why the ignition points are not made correctly, and tell us why they are selling these faulty parts.

Vendors typically sell what is available. The better quality venders sell the best available. If nothing of quality is available, what are they supposed to do? A Peddler cannot make a living selling his wares if his cart is empty!!

Originally Posted by 2speed

I bought a new top plate(which the points don't fit on the post), I bought a new point block, new points, which are supposedly the new correct length one. I also have a machined point block that supposedly fits the bad points. After mix and matching all the combinations, they don't line up to my satisfaction. I found an old point block, and voila it's perfect.

Are the new parts still no good? This is frustrating as I'm buying new and it just doesn't work. Or just move to the new style points?

Just so we are clear, the aftermarket "new style points" are made offshore too, ...so what kind of QC are you/we expecting to see on an item that was last used on OE applications some 40+ years ago?


FWIW, there is a strong misunderstanding (-or expectation) that replacement parts are supposed to fit exactly as the original item did when new. During the 1950s thru the turn of the Century, this was just understood ...and reproduction parts were used as a last resort when new original parts (NOS or NORS) could not be found. With a minor exception by manufacturers such as Al LePore or others, most reproduction or aftermarket parts were not 'plug & play' quality because the end-user was not paying for that level of quality. And just so this is also clear, there are a few people that will say they would rather pay for the best quality however it has been proven repeatedly that these number of hobbyists by percentages is very small. I will also tell you that from my perspective of being in the profession, poor quality aftermarket parts for collector vehicles is the same across the board with all marques. When restoring a Mustang, a vintage Volkswagen, a Tri5 Chevrolet, a 60s-70s Ford or Chevy P/U, etc., rarely do aftermarket or reproduction parts fit when removed from the shipping package or box. So Model-A reproduction parts do not have the franchise on parts not fitting.

[nkaminar]

They do because they can. And because people buy them.

[Richard Knight]

I think the terminology used by many vendors is part of the problem, exact replacement, perfect match, made to Ford print, same as original, all terms I have seen over the last 60 years. I know advertisers are not going to say almost fits, almost looks like original, almost made to Ford print, but that is the facts. Been making replacement parts work for a long time. Delt with all kinds of issues but I have tools and experience, many do not, and expect more than they should at times.

[BButturff]

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I will also tell you that from my perspective of being in the profession, poor quality aftermarket parts for collector vehicles is the same across the board with all marques. When restoring a Mustang, a vintage Volkswagen, a Tri5 Chevrolet, a 60s-70s Ford or Chevy P/U, etc., rarely do aftermarket or reproduction parts fit when removed from the shipping package or box. So Model-A reproduction parts do not have the franchise on parts not fitting.

I'm fairly new to the Model A world but this has been my experience with my other cars as well.

[JoeCB]

Not just cars either ... modern replacement points for vintage outboard motors have the same problems. Either don't fit or most commonly the points don't line up ...I think that its a chineasium problem

Joe B

[rotorwrench]

The only points sets that I've never had to tweek are the really old OEM sets and sets made for TCM/Bendix aircraft magnetos. We have to pay a hefty price for that quality but that's the only way to stay in business in the aviation world. Automobiles can pull off the side of the road if they crap out. I've adjusted many replacement points sets from all sorts of manufacturers to get them to match up and be even in contact. Some manuals will even instruct a mechanic to do so.

If a parts source contracts a manufacturer to reproduce parts like this, they have to purchase in bulk to make it worthwhile to the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is in a communist country then it does little good to complain to them about fit and function because they will claim to have made them all to customers specs. The customer has to eat it or try to pawn it off so this is the situation that is most likely.

[old ugly]

a set of originals if you can find. clean them up.

Never switch to what they call a modern points set, those are even worse junk with a plastic follower, not fiber, and that plastic will melt on you and leave you stranded every time.

[alexiskai]

Recently there’s been a spate of guys posting on the Facebook groups that “I just got the car, it won’t start, I’ve replaced all the ignition/electrical parts, I’m out of ideas.” And it occurred to me, no wonder there’s no incentive for repro manufacturers to make parts that fit. The guys who are doing most of the buying wouldn’t know a good part from a bad one. In fact they’re probably swapping bad parts in and taking good ones out.

[bobbader]

In answer to Bob Bidonde ............................ The "best on the market" points most of us sell have been made by a major domestic ignition parts manufacturer that has been around for the better part of a century. for whatever reason, within the last 10 (plus or minus) years the length of the movable arm of the main assembly "became" 1/8" longer. Nobody knows why, including, supposedly, the manufacturer. Oftentimes, these things happen when parts are moved to different factories. In any event, my understanding is that they are not willing to re-tool the product. That said, they are still far better than other points on the market. The major suppliers in the Model A industry have yet to fund a reasonable substitute for this product. So, they've done the next best thing by redesigning the adjoining point block to provide better alignment of the point terminals. This didn't solve the incorrect length issue but, it does provide a remedy to the alignment issue. Yes, it's another $10-12 out of pocket expense for the retail customer but, it's a fix. So, yes, we still sell the "best points available" rather than other poor (POOR) substitutes that may be out there.

[2speed]

For me the distance was JUST about acceptable, I just could get the faces to be parallel and get over half of the face contact. Just didn't seem good enough for me...

[Bob Bidonde]

All I ask for is reproduction parts that fit and perform well. I am not a stickler for conformance to the factory designs. In my opinion, if a reproduction part needs work to fit, then the dealer who sells it needs to inform buyers of this. This is why I firmly respect my local Model "A" parts vendor who does give notice of issues with parts.
I also have another peeve about dealers who have parts made in foreign countries. Foreign parts take heat for quality, but the buyers need to hold them responsible for producing parts that match the specification of their orders. If the orders have faulty specifications, then it is the buyer who is at fault.

[Richard Knight]

I am in the camp of there is no substitute for original Ford parts. having said that is has been a long time since a lot of the parts that we use are available. So if you can find NOS Ford points buy them. As far as modern points it is the same scenario, if you can find the Ford points used from 1957 into the early seventies those are what you want.in the sixties one of the features of those points was that the alignment out of the box was excellent. I worked on mercury outboard and they had dual point magnetos and part of the job was aligning the points. We had a tool just for that job. I wish I had that tool as it would be a help in aligning any points. It is very fortunate that model As have an adjustable stationary point.

[BButturff]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

All I ask for is reproduction parts that fit and perform well. I am not a stickler for conformance to the factory designs. In my opinion, if a reproduction part needs work to fit, then the dealer who sells it needs to inform buyers of this. This is why I firmly respect my local Model "A" parts vendor who does give notice of issues with parts.
I also have another peeve about dealers who have parts made in foreign countries. Foreign parts take heat for quality, but the buyers need to hold them responsible for producing parts that match the specification of their orders. If the orders have faulty specifications, then it is the buyer who is at fault.

Bob, I have a lot of respect for you and the amount of valuable knowledge you being to the table so don't take this the wrong way. But a lot of buyers, like myself, don't have a local Model A parts vendor to rely on. When we buy parts we're doing so blindly with a good dose of faith. I don't believe that buyers can be at fault.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

All I ask for is reproduction parts that fit and perform well. I am not a stickler for conformance to the factory designs. In my opinion, if a reproduction part needs work to fit, then the dealer who sells it needs to inform buyers of this. This is why I firmly respect my local Model "A" parts vendor who does give notice of issues with parts.
I also have another peeve about dealers who have parts made in foreign countries. Foreign parts take heat for quality, but the buyers need to hold them responsible for producing parts that match the specification of their orders. If the orders have faulty specifications, then it is the buyer who is at fault.

Bob, while I understand you desire parts that fit and you are willing to pay the upcharge, -over and over it has been proven (-and stated) by the vendors selling that by a huge majority of hobbyists, these buyers choose with their wallet to choose (and buy) the inferior item. Look at the quality that WalMart sells vs. higher-end retailers, and it becomes evident that the Consumer's priority on quality falls below pricing. Otherwise high-end Retailer's businesses would be booming and WalMart would be struggling.

Walt Bratton and Don Snyder have both been proactive in printing on their website stating 'Imported item' or 'Inferior Quality but the best available at this time'. I'm sure other reputable vendors do this also. Also, unlike vendors in other markets, most Model-A vendors will refund your money if you are unhappy with the quality.

[stevemclark]

Look at this one ,read the listing on it. https://www.modelaparts.com/a1165567. .read this one too both from same vender Tams, https://www.modelaparts.com/a1165567...h-body-1928-39 Look at the price,at least they are honest about it,you can buy both and send back the one you don't want,hint you don't want the import one.If you have not noticed parts are getting harder to get,look for a steering worm or sector gear.

[GYYSYF]

Originally Posted by stevemclark

Look at this one ,read the listing on it. Link removed by fordbarn. .read this one too both from same vender Tams, Link removed by fordbarn. Look at the price,at least they are honest about it,you can buy both and send back the one you don't want,hint you don't want the import one.If you have not noticed parts are getting harder to get,look for a steering worm or sector gear.

I wonder why Tam's uses a photo of the exact same part to illustrate both the 'bad' low cost part and the new expensive 'good' part???

People cannot believe anything regarding quality claims of repro parts.

[2speed]

Originally Posted by old ugly

a set of originals if you can find. clean them up.

Never switch to what they call a modern points set, those are even worse junk with a plastic follower, not fiber, and that plastic will melt on you and leave you stranded every time.

You're saying that the Model A distributor gets hot enough to melt the plastic follower? I've been considering switching, but this could be alarming. Anyone else have this happen?

[2speed]

FWIW, there is a strong misunderstanding (-or expectation) that replacement parts are supposed to fit exactly as the original item did when new. During the 1950s thru the turn of the Century, this was just understood ...and reproduction parts were used as a last resort when new original parts (NOS or NORS) could not be found. With a minor exception by manufacturers such as Al LePore or others, most reproduction or aftermarket parts were not 'plug & play' quality because the end-user was not paying for that level of quality. And just so this is also clear, there are a few people that will say they would rather pay for the best quality however it has been proven repeatedly that these number of hobbyists by percentages is very small. I will also tell you that from my perspective of being in the profession, poor quality aftermarket parts for collector vehicles is the same across the board with all marques. When restoring a Mustang, a vintage Volkswagen, a Tri5 Chevrolet, a 60s-70s Ford or Chevy P/U, etc., rarely do aftermarket or reproduction parts fit when removed from the shipping package or box. So Model-A reproduction parts do not have the franchise on parts not fitting.

Ok, I get that a body part needs fitting, or a fairly complicated piece might not be quite right, but points are kind of the heart and soul of the machine. They should be right.


Also this isn't 1950 anymore. CNC machines are capable of holding to the micron. Just recently I had to modify my distributor intermediate drive shaft for correct length. Others had to modify the same and the slots. There is no excuse, NONE. I can make one of these in my home shop if I had to, it's pretty simple. Today with a CNC lathe, live tooling, and double chucks, you can turn them out like popcorn, and have them be perfect. I know this because I work at a bearing manufacturer that has that equipment and does those kind of operations on parts. The shaft is about $5. Someone is going to bitch that it costs 6 or 7 dollars and actually fits correctly?