The Ford Barn

Ayers1 · 03-19-2025, 03:06 PM

A few weeks ago I had posted that I was having issues trying to get my car started for the first time after being restored. The engine was rebuilt by the previous owner and I pulled it while the body was off and checked clearances etc. While I was trying to get it started I found that I had to time it about 180 degrees off. It ran but that's all you could say for it. Finally got time this weekend and pulled the timing covers off to see what was happening. What I found was that if you line the marks up on the crank and cam gears, the piston is ~1inch below the top of the cylinder. If you bring the piston to TDC the marks are about 2 teeth past lining up. I bought 2 new gears and the marks are in the same place as the old ones. Has anyone seen this before?
Thanks,

J Franklin · 03-19-2025, 03:22 PM

Is that the dimple for the timing pin?

Bob Johnson · 03-19-2025, 03:33 PM

Top Dead Center is not when the marks line up. It is when the mark on the camshaft gear lines up with the timing pin (hole). There would have to be a 180 degree difference between those two points, which I do not think is the case.

Bob

Ayers1 · 03-19-2025, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Is that the dimple for the timing pin?

It's supposed to be. After I took the picture I replaced the gear with one that had a real dimple.

Ayers1 · 03-19-2025, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

Top Dead Center is not when the marks line up. It is when the mark on the camshaft gear lines up with the timing pin (hole). There would have to be a 180 degree difference between those two points, which I do not think is the case.

Bob

So you believe that I am way over thinking this? I had always thought that when the marks were lined up, #1 was at TDC. If this engine had ran well, I would have continued thinking along those lines.

Big hammer · 03-19-2025, 04:37 PM

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Your camshaft to crankshaft is in time by the second picture, put the cover back on, now you need to time the distributor, turn your motor over and find the compression stroke thumb over the spark plug hole #1 , reverse the timing pin and when the pin drops in your ready to loosen the distributor cam and then point the rotor to #1 in the distributor body ,the rotor trailing edge pointing to the #1 ( about 4:00 position looking from the right side of your car) with the points gap .018 to .022 the points will just start to open when the rotor is pointing to the #1 in the distributor body .

If you will search the past posts on setting timing look for past member Tom Wesenberg on setting and forget it timing method

Keith True · 03-19-2025, 04:38 PM

The engine is NOT at TDC when those marks are lined up.The engine is at TDC when the timing pin drops into that hole,on the correct position of the crankshaft,You and when that happens that hole is nowhere near that crank gear.You have to make sure you are pressing the timing pin in on the correct position of the crank.You can press it in with the crank out of whack.Turn it over by hand,with your thumb on the # 1 spark plug hole,and when it comes up on compression you are on the right stroke.Then hold the pin in the hole until it drops in place.You can line that pin up two ways,but only one is right.

Dick M · 03-19-2025, 05:13 PM

Sometimes the it is hard to find the dimple on the timing gear for the timing pin. You can grind the timing pin to a sharper point and it will make the dimple easier to find.

The above answers are correct. The dimple on the crank gear and the dimple on the cam gear are only for timing the crank to the cam. They are not for
timing the engine..

Ayers1 · 03-19-2025, 06:03 PM

Thanks everyone for the information. When I had it running a couple of weeks ago I could trace the issues back to the timing. Apparently the previous owner had gotten the gear a little off and after that I started questioning everything. Replacing the timing gear should have been a simple process but I started trying to compare everything and what I was seeing didn't add up because it's not supposed to!
Once again, making the simple complicated for over 63 years........

jb-ob · 03-19-2025, 06:14 PM

Easy to over think these cars....it's only a Ford.

Your current timing gear is not the old replacement two piece design with an aluminum hub ? If it is and things are 'open', good time to ditch it.

Ayers1 · 03-19-2025, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Easy to over think these cars....it's only a Ford.

Your current timing gear is not the old replacement two piece design with an aluminum hub ? If it is and things are 'open', good time to ditch it.

You are correct, it is just a Ford!
I have replaced the fiber gear for an aluminum one since I took these pictures. I haven't closed anything up yet because I kept second guessing myself. After reading these responses I realize that it's set up correctly and I just need to move forward. Hopefully it will run better this time around!

1crosscut · 03-19-2025, 08:19 PM

Easiest way (for me) to find the dimple is to use a short phillips screw driver instead of the timing pin.

nkaminar · 03-20-2025, 07:01 AM

The dimple on the timing gear and the pin are a shortcut to finding TDC on #1 cylinder. But if a Model B cover is used on a Model A engine the timing will be off. First principles can be used. If the #1 piston is at the top and both valves are closed then that is where the engine should be timed, with the advance lever all the way up. The points should just be ready to open at that engine position.

Ayers1 · 03-20-2025, 06:49 PM

I was able to work on this today. Got the marks lined up, spun the engine around until the pin was in the hole and the piston was TDC. And then I set the distributor time. It's amazing how trying to connect too many dots at one time can really mess you up! Once I get another issue taken care of, hopefully I'll get it started this weekend and it will run like it should!
Thanks again for you guys taking the time to set me straight!

katy · 03-21-2025, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayers1

I was able to work on this today. Got the marks lined up, spun the engine around until the pin was in the hole and the piston was TDC

You got it!

Ayers1 · 03-21-2025, 05:18 PM

And the darn thing better run right this time! ��

Ayers1 · 03-22-2025, 03:24 PM

It's alive! Got it started this afternoon, did a couple of adjustments, and it sounds darn good! I was sweating it after the first attempt!

nkaminar · 03-22-2025, 08:27 PM

Great news, Avers1. There are a few things that have to be right for any engine to run good. One is the right timing.

03-19-2025, 03:22 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,369	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Is that the dimple for the timing pin?

03-19-2025, 03:33 PM	#3
Bob Johnson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: California Posts: 1,012	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Top Dead Center is not when the marks line up. It is when the mark on the camshaft gear lines up with the timing pin (hole). There would have to be a 180 degree difference between those two points, which I do not think is the case. Bob

03-19-2025, 04:37 PM	#6
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,429	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Your camshaft to crankshaft is in time by the second picture, put the cover back on, now you need to time the distributor, turn your motor over and find the compression stroke thumb over the spark plug hole #1 , reverse the timing pin and when the pin drops in your ready to loosen the distributor cam and then point the rotor to #1 in the distributor body ,the rotor trailing edge pointing to the #1 ( about 4:00 position looking from the right side of your car) with the points gap .018 to .022 the points will just start to open when the rotor is pointing to the #1 in the distributor body . If you will search the past posts on setting timing look for past member Tom Wesenberg on setting and forget it timing method __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

03-19-2025, 04:38 PM	#7
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 3,420	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. The engine is NOT at TDC when those marks are lined up.The engine is at TDC when the timing pin drops into that hole,on the correct position of the crankshaft,You and when that happens that hole is nowhere near that crank gear.You have to make sure you are pressing the timing pin in on the correct position of the crank.You can press it in with the crank out of whack.Turn it over by hand,with your thumb on the # 1 spark plug hole,and when it comes up on compression you are on the right stroke.Then hold the pin in the hole until it drops in place.You can line that pin up two ways,but only one is right.

03-19-2025, 05:13 PM	#8
Dick M Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ukiah, CA Posts: 510	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Sometimes the it is hard to find the dimple on the timing gear for the timing pin. You can grind the timing pin to a sharper point and it will make the dimple easier to find. The above answers are correct. The dimple on the crank gear and the dimple on the cam gear are only for timing the crank to the cam. They are not for timing the engine..

03-19-2025, 06:03 PM	#9
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 504	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Thanks everyone for the information. When I had it running a couple of weeks ago I could trace the issues back to the timing. Apparently the previous owner had gotten the gear a little off and after that I started questioning everything. Replacing the timing gear should have been a simple process but I started trying to compare everything and what I was seeing didn't add up because it's not supposed to! Once again, making the simple complicated for over 63 years........

03-19-2025, 06:14 PM	#10
jb-ob Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 787	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Easy to over think these cars....it's only a Ford. Your current timing gear is not the old replacement two piece design with an aluminum hub ? If it is and things are 'open', good time to ditch it.

03-19-2025, 08:19 PM	#12
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 2,011	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Easiest way (for me) to find the dimple is to use a short phillips screw driver instead of the timing pin. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

03-20-2025, 07:01 AM	#13
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,842	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. The dimple on the timing gear and the pin are a shortcut to finding TDC on #1 cylinder. But if a Model B cover is used on a Model A engine the timing will be off. First principles can be used. If the #1 piston is at the top and both valves are closed then that is where the engine should be timed, with the advance lever all the way up. The points should just be ready to open at that engine position. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-20-2025, 06:49 PM	#14
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 504	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. I was able to work on this today. Got the marks lined up, spun the engine around until the pin was in the hole and the piston was TDC. And then I set the distributor time. It's amazing how trying to connect too many dots at one time can really mess you up! Once I get another issue taken care of, hopefully I'll get it started this weekend and it will run like it should! Thanks again for you guys taking the time to set me straight!

03-21-2025, 05:18 PM	#16
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 504	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. And the darn thing better run right this time! ��

03-22-2025, 03:24 PM	#17
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 504	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. It's alive! Got it started this afternoon, did a couple of adjustments, and it sounds darn good! I was sweating it after the first attempt!

03-22-2025, 08:27 PM	#18
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,842	Re: Timing gear marks don't line up. Great news, Avers1. There are a few things that have to be right for any engine to run good. One is the right timing. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.