Eating Up Voltage Regulators

[41SupDelux]

Evening, gentleman,

1941 Ford Super Deluxe

I have a problem. I mean, I have a lot of problems, but specifically, with voltage regulators. I have gone through four voltage regulators. One extra that came with the car, two Echlin brand (Made in the U.S.A) and one Duralast (also U.S.A. made). I have a 6v positive ground system. I don't know what it is, but my regulators keep going bad, with one common issue being the contacts getting welded together. I have noticed it does seem to commonly occur at night, when I'm running my headlights. It'll work for a time and then bam - it stops charging and then the battery begins to drain, while driving and then once I've turned the car off. I've gone through the normal polarizing procedure, though probably not necessary as I'm not changing the generators out. Both generators I've tried are pretty old and I have no way to tell how old they are or if they were rebuilt; both came with the car. Am I using the wrong regulators? Each one has been generic for positive ground or negative ground systems. At this point, my next action would be replacing both the generator (or getting it rebuilt) along with the voltage regulator; essentially, starting over. All tips, links, and recommended equipment is appreciated.

[deuce_roadster]

Does the Regulator have a GOOD ground? You might try running a ground wire from the generator to one of the 3 screws that hold it to the firewall.

[koates]

Could you be more specific in which contacts are being welded together. The voltage regulator (one end) the current reg (center) or the cutout on the other end which is the set which are usually open when the engine is off. Regards, Kevin.

[koates]

Something else to check is to ensure the Field and Armature wires are connected the correct way around at both the regulator and the generator. The field is usually a smaller gauge than the armature wire. As mentioned by another barner is that the earth is important. Report back your findings. Regards, Kevin.

[chap52]

Don't know if it matters but did you polarize the regulators when you installed them? All I know is as a teenage master shade tree mechanic almost 60 years ago we were told to always to take a small wire and just tap it on the two outer connections of a new regulator to "polarize" it. Must have worked because we never saw any polar bears in our neighborhood. (sorry) Chap

[pistonbroke]

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Just thinking outside the box here.When everything is on , lights, heater and so on, as you bring the rpms up what does the amp meter do? You may have a unfused short. My other thought is what do you know about the gen? It to could be you have a internal short and as the reg makes the conection it burns the points. Good hunting,Tim

[Kurt in NJ]

Voltage regulators for a generator have to match the type of generator, the Ford ones have to put power to the fields, the other type makes a ground for the fields, they won’t interchange.
The other function is to limit amps production to keep the generator from burning up due to overload.
The 3 relay regulator has a cutout to disconnect the generator from the battery, a voltage regulation relay and a current regulation relay that has to match the generator capacity.

[41SupDelux]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

Does the Regulator have a GOOD ground? You might try running a ground wire from the generator to one of the 3 screws that hold it to the firewall.

The generator has a dedicated ground connection and runs directly to one of the screws mounting the regulator to the firewall, so I would say it has a good ground. The only potential issue I could think of, in terms of ground, is the wire being internally corroded. Might check that then.

[41SupDelux]

Originally Posted by koates

Could you be more specific in which contacts are being welded together. The voltage regulator (one end) the current reg (center) or the cutout on the other end which is the set which are usually open when the engine is off. Regards, Kevin.

My bad---should have mentioned that. The cutoff is the one that is getting welding together. It'll buzz for a while, which I can hear if the engine isn't roaring, and then at some point, I can usually hear when it welds itself as it goes quiet and my ammeter drops.

[41SupDelux]

Originally Posted by pistonbroke

Just thinking outside the box here.When everything is on , lights, heater and so on, as you bring the rpms up what does the amp meter do? You may have a unfused short. My other thought is what do you know about the gen? It to could be you have a internal short and as the reg makes the conection it burns the points. Good hunting,Tim

I have no such luxury as a heater. Haha. If I'm idling with the lights on, it's showing a slight discharge but as I bring the RPM's up, the ammeter climbs up pretty high. The thing that bothers me is there seems to be a big "disparity" between the supposedly model specific Echlin and Duralast regulators, as the gapping is pretty different between the two brands. Echlin always showed a mild amperage increase when revving, while the Duralast had a much higher output of amperage. It makes me wonder at the quality and factory settings for these regulators.

[41SupDelux]

Originally Posted by chap52

Don't know if it matters but did you polarize the regulators when you installed them? All I know is as a teenage master shade tree mechanic almost 60 years ago we were told to always to take a small wire and just tap it on the two outer connections of a new regulator to "polarize" it. Must have worked because we never saw any polar bears in our neighborhood. (sorry) Chap

There is polarizing procedure printed on the cover of these regulators, which involved taking the F lead to the bat connection for a second. Not sure if you're polarizing the regulator or just the generator, but I've followed that procedure each time.

[koates]

Well this is a tricky one and after four regulators and two generators and some good answers by members , especially Kurt #7, then I am not sure what is going on here. All my work on vehicles over more than 60 years was actually hands on and not by mail. Many voltage regs are polarity specific because of the material in the contacts but there are some brands that will work either polarity. New out of the box regs are not necessarily adjusted correctly and should be adjusted with good analog meters (not digital)on the car by a trained auto electrician. Some batteries can cause problems because of their condition. Do you have a good old auto electrician in your area who could check it out for you ? I say old auto elect because the younger fellas did not learn about generators and mechanical voltage regs. I cant think of much else at the moment. Let us know if you get it fixed. Regards, Kevin.

[Ggmac]

Is your wiring original or has it been replaced with quality new car specific wiring? I’ve got a few 41s and all have gotten the new wiring harness from Tyre ( forgot his last name ) Davis ?
Dont try to use the universal harnesses available. Are your regulaters definitely 6 volt ? Are they specifically for Ford ?

[rotorwrench]

Most Fords from the model A up through 1955 ran 6-volt positive ground systems. Polarizing a generator is a simple matter of flashing the field to get residual magnetism of proper polarity into the generator pole shoes. The generator starts generating off of that residual magnetism as soon as it starts turning. Once the voltage builds to a point just over the battery normal voltage, the cut out pole closes and brings the generator on line to start replenishing amperage that was used during starting. After it has run a while, the ammeter should settle back down to indicate the basic amperage that allows the coil and whatever other electrical loads are on at the time. Generators don't function well if rpm gets out of the normal operational range. If an engine runs higher rpm then it needs a pulley to slow it down but most Ford systems already have a proper diameter for normal function.

Koates is one of those electrical guys that could find your problem but unfortunately he's not in your local area. Take note of his recommendations. A bad battery or some form of short of a more intermittent type can give you fits so make sure the wiring is good throughout the car. Test the battery with a high rate discharge tester or just keep an eye on amperage/voltage during charging. Voltage should be around 7.2 or so during normal function of the regulator. If the battery is on a good 6-volt charger then the amperage shouldn't get too high or overheat unless it is near dead or has a problem internally. A fully charged battery should read around 6.3 volts give or take. It may be lower after is sets a while but should still make at least 6-volts. The generator can be tested for both regulated and unregulated function to see if it's functioning properly but some important tools are needed as Koates mentioned. If the generator is putting out too many amps on an overload situation then it will kill a regulator. While I'm not too impressed with the modern replacement parts, most will give better service than that but adjustments of the VR pole and the current limiter pole are always suspect on the new ones. I actually trust the older units more but they are getting harder to find in usable condition.