Question about Vicky front seat removal

[Marshall V. Daut]

A friend has asked me to fix a flopping seat back in his late 1931 Vicky. It's the driver's side, the one that slides on a track. I need to remove the seat from the car in order to pull back the upholstery and find out why the inboard arm is flopping around behind the upholstery, as if its anchor point is broken. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to get the seat off the track. Does the seat need to come off with the tracks still attached (meaning unbolted from the floor), or can the seat be slid off the tracks, probably towards the rear? 'Never messed with a Vicky before, so the answer will be enlightening to me.
Marshall

[jw hash]

remove the front seat adjustment bracket from the floor. remove the spring under the seat and slide the seat forward off the lower slides.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Thanks, JW. Doesn't the steering wheel hinder the driver's seat from sliding far enough forward to come off the tracks?
Marshall

[jw hash]

sometimes the steering wheel is a problem. if the seat has been reupholstered. if original slide the seat back fold the back down and slide it forward.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I'll try your recommendation in the next couple days. Thanks.

Is it common for the front seat's backrest arm to break inside the upholstery? Or is it bolted to the main frame and perhaps the bolt has worked loose and fallen out? I'd like to be mentally prepared for what I might find after removing the seat cushion upholstery material. Forewarned is forearmed.
M.

[jw hash]

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they do at times break at the lower part of the bracket. right where it bolts to the wood.

[Marshall V. Daut]

THAT'S what I was afraid of. This seat exhibits such characteristics as that, especially since there was a pile of wood chips beneath the rear of the seat. One broken seat bracket coming up!
M.

[Marshall V. Daut]

An update for interested Vicky owners -
I unbolted the front bracket as advised and slid the seat forward on its tracks. It did clear the steering wheel and came out cleanly. No return spring was present, so one will be ordered.
Once the seat had been removed, a pile of wood splinters and slivers was discovered underneath where the seat had sat. Peeling back the upholstery on the inboard side of seat's rear corner, it was evident that the wood seat platform was rotten where the backrest bracket bolts. The three carriage head bolts securing the bracket to the wood were just flopping around because there was no longer any wood left for them to anchor through! That's why the seat back flopped to the rear. Odd that just that portion of the wooden base had deteriorated to such a degree. The rest of the wooden platform is fine.
Since replacing the wooden base is not practical, I will bolt a 1/4" thick steel bar to the underside of the remaining wood and run new carriage head bolts through that and into the backrest bracket. There's enough solid wood ahead of the splintered portion to make this idea work - I hope.
If anyone has a better solution, I'm all ears..
Marshall

[Bill Cilker]

Marshall and John
Thank you for this information. I am going to use it for an article for the Victoria Association Bustle news letter.

Marshall
You might want to make a filler piece of wood to replace the wood that rotted away, then use your 1/4" steel bar.

I have added a picture so other people will understand the issue. The 3 round heads on each side are the carriage bolts that hold the seat back support to the seat frame.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Bill -
The seat I'm trying to repair does not have those metal side plates shown in your photo. The carriage head bolts simply went up through the wooden platform and into the backrest bracket, which explains why that corner probably gave way. With those plates in place, how would you tack the seat upholstery underneath the wooden seat platform along the sides? Or are those plates a restorer's attempt to repair or strengthen this inherently weak area? There is also no center metal channel/trough through which the ratchet arm passes on my friend's Vicky, as seen in your photo. The seat platform looks NOTHING like yours. It is a solid piece of plywood with no open center area, which is why that channel is missing. If the seat construction in your photo is correct, it wouldn't surprise me that the center channel, the main return spring and the side mounting plates are missing from my friend's driver's seat. The car was on the losing end of a very poor amateur "restoration" with all the usual nasty mistakes. Jeez, this retro-repair work is getting old. Does it take any extra effort to do the job right the first time?
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

I just looked through a vendor's parts catalog at the seat section. I see that those side plates are for a softback Vicky. My friend's Vicky is a steelback, which is possibly why those plates are not present. I wonder why Ford dropped those plates when the bodies changed over to the steelback style? It seems to me they would be a great aid in keeping the seat's wood base from splitting. Try to save a buck??? A nickel saved here, a nickel saved there...
I spent the past hour going though almost 30 years of "Victoria Bustle" newsletter back issues, searching for information and drawings of how the ratchet style seat adjuster is configured. Just my luck - the early driver's seat and the passenger's seat constructions are shown multiple times in multiple issue over multiple years - but NOTHING on the ratchet style, only an occasional photo of the ratchet assembly off the seat, which doesn't really answer my questions. My back issues begin the middle 1980's and end in the mid-2010's. Maybe I am missing a couple issues or such information was printed after I stopped subscribing (I sold my Vicky). It would be a great help to see a photo of an overturned ratchet style driver's seat with the parts assembled, ready to mount on the track bases. Anybody have a loose seat he can photograph to help?
Marshall

[Bill Cilker]

Marshall
The picture is of the late 1931 (June on) Victoria sliding driver's seat that Arlyn Bieber restored for fine point judging. The late 1931 seats were made from 4 pieces of oak with a opening in the middle. The early style seats with front pivots had a solid plywood bottom with 9 holes drilled it it. See the picture of the bottom of my early steel back Victoria's drivers seat. I am almost certain that the metal support should be there. I am not sure how the upholstery was fastened around the metal supports. The October 2000 Bustle (V15-I4) has some information on the late front seats.
Bill

[Marshall V. Daut]

Thanks, Bill. The photo is helpful to show what a mess someone has made of my friend's Victoria driver's seat, but I also need to see the ratchet assembly mounted to the wooden platform. The return spring bracket is present on the back of the seat (although the spring is missing), but I see no hole farther up for the spring to attach. There is a very short spring way up front that is just hanging loose. Someone's idea of "fixing" the seat or is it supposed to be there, meaning are there two springs? From your photo I can see that the front stubby "legs" are also missing.
I'll take photos of what I am working with tomorrow and post them for suggestions.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

Come to think of it, those feet would not be necessary with the ratchet design. My friend's car is a late 1931 with indented firewall and under-the-hood fuel shut off valve. So, I assume the seat should look like Arlyn's seat in post #9.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

I took photos of the Vicky's driver's seat from my friend's late 1931 steelback. As can be seen in the last photo, I have trimmed away the rotted wood from the seat platform where the backrest bracket attaches. I have cut a piece of wood to run the length of the missing wood. It will be supported by a 1/4" thick steel strap with holes drilled in it for the three bracket mounting bolts, as well as two extra bolts forward to give rigidity to the repair. The bolts will run through the steel plate, through the wood block and be secured inside the backrest bracket. It would be best to simply replace the wooden platform with the correct open-center base, but with all the upholstery in place, that's not an option.
The remaining four photos show the ratchet seat adjustment. The main spring is missing, but the rear attachment bracket for this spring is present. What is the little spring for at the front of the mounting bracket and where does it attach? It was just hanging free when I removed the seat from the car. Even though the platform is not open in the middle, will the ratchet adjustment still function?
The re-inforcing brackets along the side of the seat platform are missing. In Snyder's catalog, these parts are #A-70123-RE, listed for a softback Vicky. My friend's Vicky is a steelback. Is the catalog wrong? Do these plates also belong on a steelback driver's seat?
Comments? Advice?
Marshall

[jw hash]

Marshall I would not even try to fix what you have, just replace the wood. If you need a pattern, I will send you one.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Yup. It's a mess, all right. Mr. Goodwrench Restorer strikes again!
M.

[jb-ob]

Marshall,

'How to Restore Your Model A,' Volume 3, p.78, 79, & 80 has pictures that could be helpful, maybe ....? jb

[Bick in New Zealand]

The picture that Bill shows is correct for the ratchet assembly seat frame. I would say that someone in the past has replaced the whole base of the seat. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the underside, from when I restored my seats. The corner supports are factory supplied, and if you look closely, there is provision for the upholstery to be tacked underneath. Vol.3. of the How to restore your Model A, has an excellent article by Phil Allin on restoring these seats.

[JRrev]

You're right that it's a mess. If your catalog says those supporting brackets are not for the later ratchet style, they're wrong. They have small slots for tacking the upholstery under (as shown in Bill's pic). I looked at my 400A(same seat) and that's how I tacked it. The small spring keeps the ratchet engaged as it could disengage with vibration otherwise.