59a bell housing dowel pins

[drfromnc]

Any one know where I can pickup a set of bell housing dowel pins for a 59a? Or have an idea for a substitute? Or do I really need them?

[marko39]

You could make your own from cut down drill bits if you can’t find any from the vendors.

[Zeke3]

Dowel pins are for alignment of the transmission to the engine. If they were part of the original design, you need them.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by marko39

You could make your own from cut down drill bits if you can’t find any from the vendors.

I like the drill bit idea, get a bit that fits slightly snug into the bellhousing. Cutoff bolts would be cheaper if they are the correct diameter. They "must" be there for proper transmission alignment. I have a 59A block on an engine stand that I can measure the dowels when it stops raining.

[Karl Wescott]

McMaster-Carr has hardened steel "drill rod". Might be a better choice than cutting down a drill bit. They also have a variety of dowels, but the available od's are more limited.

[Flathead]

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Maybe if you could find a cracked/no-good block you could recycle the dowel pins. Must be a bad block out there somewhere. Or you could try roll pins.

[Flathead Fever]

I measured the ones in my 59A block with a sliding vernier micrometer and they are exactly .375" or 3/8" where they meet the block. Both front and back ends are slightly chamfered. They stick out .200". They go completely through the bellhouising and stick out a little on the backside. The total length is .703". Measuring the parts sticking out the backside they appear to also measure .375" but it's hard to get the micrometer on them and the rust was giving me different readings, give or take a few thousands. So they could be a few thousandths smaller on the back side which would means the hole in the block has the lightest taper to it.

The question is what located those dowels since the holes go clean through. Did they chill the pins and warm the block, while holding them in place sticking out .200" and wait for the temps to normalize. I kind of doubt that on an assembly line. There must be some kind of interference fit.

I took a 3/8" bolt and stuck into the dowel holes on a '39 trans case and the bolt slides through easily without any side play. The dowel holes are the same diameter as the rest of the trans bolt holes. Stick a 3/8" bolt in the block above the threads and see if the smooth part of the bolt without threads will go into the block or use back end of 3/8" drill bit to see if that hole in the block is tapered or slightly smaller. You might just need to chill the bolt and slightly heat the block with a heat gun, no torch! If a 3/8" bolts slides in the hole than I would Loctite it in with red Loctite. This would be one of the few times I would recommend using the red Loctite. Thats for stuff you never want to take a part again. You have to heat it with a torch to break the bond. Since I ordered the supplies for the shop, I banned the Red Loctite from the shop. That because one guy kept using it on everything. And we practically had to destroy parts to get them a part. The only time I used it was on loose bearing races that were spinning. Remember that was fleet work and not my personal stuff where my standard of repair is way higher.

Obviously original dowels would be best, but I think cutoff bolts will work with Loctite. You don't want that dowel to be able to fall out the back side and end up in the clutch. Be gentle with that cast iron. I had a friend that broke a flathead bellhousing. and a machine shop broke another friend's flathead block when they dropped it.

[drfromnc]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

I measured the ones in my 59A block with a sliding vernier micrometer and they are exactly .375" or 3/8" where they meet the block. Both front and back ends are slightly chamfered. They stick out .200". They go completely through the bellhouising and stick out a little on the backside. The total length is .703". Measuring the parts sticking out the backside they appear to also measure .375" but it's hard to get the micrometer on them and the rust was giving me different readings, give or take a few thousands. So they could be a few thousandths smaller on the back side which would means the hole in the block has the lightest taper to it.

The question is what located those dowels since the holes go clean through. Did they chill the pins and warm the block, while holding them in place sticking out .200" and wait for the temps to normalize. I kind of doubt that on an assembly line. There must be some kind of interference fit.

I took a 3/8" bolt and stuck into the dowel holes on a '39 trans case and the bolt slides through easily without any side play. The dowel holes are the same diameter as the rest of the trans bolt holes. Stick a 3/8" bolt in the block above the threads and see if the smooth part of the bolt without threads will go into the block or use back end of 3/8" drill bit to see if that hole in the block is tapered or slightly smaller. You might just need to chill the bolt and slightly heat the block with a heat gun, no torch! If a 3/8" bolts slides in the hole than I would Loctite it in with red Loctite. This would be one of the few times I would recommend using the red Loctite. Thats for stuff you never want to take a part again. You have to heat it with a torch to break the bond. Since I ordered the supplies for the shop, I banned the Red Loctite from the shop. That because one guy kept using it on everything. And we practically had to destroy parts to get them a part. The only time I used it was on loose bearing races that were spinning. Remember that was fleet work and not my personal stuff where my standard of repair is way higher.

Obviously original dowels would be best, but I think cutoff bolts will work with Loctite. You don't want that dowel to be able to fall out the back side and end up in the clutch. Be gentle with that cast iron. I had a friend that broke a flathead bellhousing. and a machine shop broke another friend's flathead block when they dropped it.

Thanks for the info Flathead Fever. Very helpful. I did find that Fred at Obsolete has some at a reasonable price but I am waiting on a local source to check their parts bin.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Zeke3

Dowel pins are for alignment of the transmission to the engine. If they were part of the original design, you need them.

....and I would agree with you 100%. They were put there for a good reason, and should be replaced if missing

Originally Posted by Flathead

Maybe if you could find a cracked/no-good block you could recycle the dowel pins. Must be a bad block out there somewhere. Or you could try roll pins.

This is exactly what I have done on any blocks that I had to scrap over the years I've played with these old Fords. They were originally press fitted into location, and can easily be press out and back in. I've typically just driven them out of old blocks using the correct size drift or punch. I probably have a dozen or more that I've salvaged, if anyone here needs some

[drfromnc]

I found two split pins from my assortment that fit snugly into the transmission bell housing but slightly loose in the engine bell housing holes. Drove them into trans bell hallway and will test fit trans to engine tomorrow. Might just go with them.

[Jason M.]

Is it possible to use crankshaft/flywheel dowel pins?

[cas3]

From memory, I don't think they are the same size. If they are, then certainly they would work fine.

[Zeke3]

Originally Posted by drfromnc

I found two split pins from my assortment that fit snugly into the transmission bell housing but slightly loose in the engine bell housing holes. Drove them into trans bell hallway and will test fit trans to engine tomorrow. Might just go with them.

Loose means the pins are not doing their job aligning the transmission to the engine. I would find a pin that fit the engine snugly.

[drfromnc]

I’ve got a set of correct pins on the way. Thanks Ford Barners .!!

[JM 35 Sedan]

Here's what these alignment pins, aka dowel pins look like. The center diameter is 0.405", the two diameters on either end are ~ 0.376" based on my measurements on these original parts. These pins can be pressed into the integral bell housing of the block, either end first (probably for simplicity of automated assembly), and the 0.405" diameter provides the press fit in the bell housing. They are precisely machined to provide the correct alignment between mating parts, and I would not consider using anything other the these origional type pins, if yours happen to be missing from an engine you plan to use. This is just my opinion.

[drfromnc]

Thanks John. Hopefully I can carefully drive them in with a hammer since my engine is built already and clutch pressure plate will not allow me to press it in.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by drfromnc

Thanks John. Hopefully I can carefully drive them in with a hammer since my engine is built already and clutch pressure plate will not allow me to press it in.

Put 'em in the freezer overnight.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by drfromnc

Thanks John. Hopefully I can carefully drive them in with a hammer since my engine is built already and clutch pressure plate will not allow me to press it in.

You could chill the pins, apply some heat to the bell area where they locate, using a heat gun. Apply a light coat a lube on the pin or in the locating hole, and gently tap the pins in place.

[drfromnc]

Got the pins today. Thanks John. I was able to drive them in without freezing them or heating the hole but did have to drive them in with a brass drift the last little bit. Fit was nice and snug.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by drfromnc

Got the pins today. Thanks John. I was able to drive them in without freezing them or heating the hole but did have to drive them in with a brass drift the last little bit. Fit was nice and snug.

Excellent!!