ticked off brake drum turning

[allen]

Spent the last three days trying to find a shop that will turn the new cast iron drums on Markus 31,
Must have went over 100 miles back and forth no one could not just tell me they could not do it, they all had to look at it first, then say no
So got more upset and went out and bought a brake lathe fmc 600 now having to order the adapter for the taper hub,
Thought about having a machine shop build one anyone know the size of the centering cone i understand this is not a taper cone, but one that fits in the hub less the roller bearing anyone out there had this much fun yet,

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Allen, both of my brake lathes are Brake Doktors so I doubt my arbors would be of much help to you but a FWIW, one day James Rogers was over here and on a whim I decided to see if we could modify some of my existing cones to fit the Model A drum. While my Southbend lathe has a taper attachment, I'm too ignorant to know how to use it adequately so we just used the compound to cut them down to size. I said THAT to say this, ...I actually like the adapter I made that was a round disc of aluminum that slides into the hub bearing race and pilots off of the arbor. Just a hand nut holds the drum onto the adapter forcing the drum back against that adapter. We also made a super-thin cone to use on the axle nut side of the drum hub, but I find it is difficult to make it center the way I have it. Some day I will likely make a new arbor using an old axle just so it will have the taper to pilot off of.

.

[Aerocraft]

I found that some machine shops still have the hardware to turn old VW rear drums which will work with the rear Model A drum. When asked, they said they couldn't turn Model A drums but could do VW. Try asking about VW's.....

Gar Williams

[Kurt in NJ]

My old John Beam (Barrett) has an adapter that fits the hub with the wheel bearing and seal still in place, it fits tight enough that with good hub and bearing it has to be screwed in place ---and a small taper adapter for the outside.

I had wondered about the accuracy of using the wheel bearing as part of the setup so I checked, and resetup with different clocking of the adapters --then on an axle in the lathe and could repeat within .0005 so it is a valid mounting method.

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

.................I actually like the adapter I made that was a round disc of aluminum that slides into the hub bearing race and pilots off of the arbor. Just a hand nut holds the drum onto the adapter forcing the drum back against that adapter. We also made a super-thin cone to use on the axle nut side of the drum hub, but I find it is difficult to make it center the way I have it. Some day I will likely make a new arbor using an old axle just so it will have the taper to pilot off of.

.

Brent,

Could you post a picture of the adapter that you made?

[allen]

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Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

My old John Beam (Barrett) has an adapter that fits the hub with the wheel bearing and seal still in place, it fits tight enough that with good hub and bearing it has to be screwed in place ---and a small taper adapter for the outside.

I had wondered about the accuracy of using the wheel bearing as part of the setup so I checked, and resetup with different clocking of the adapters --then on an axle in the lathe and could repeat within .0005 so it is a valid mounting method.

Hi kurt the fmc i just got has john beam on it my understanding is fmc and john beam is the same, can you or brent post a pic thanks al

[fordcragar]

Originally Posted by allen

Hi kurt the fmc i just got has john beam on it my understanding is fmc and john beam is the same, can you or brent post a pic thanks al

My brake lathe is the same as yours. Mine is actually an Atlas brake lathe; which is the same as the FMC, John Bean and now is owned by Snap-On.

If you need a manual:

http://www.aescosc.com/pdfs/FMC_BL_601.pdf

[ChicagoBob]

Gar, What shops? I'm in Naperville and need my front drums turned.

[allen]

Originally Posted by ChicagoBob

Gar, What shops? I'm in Naperville and need my front drums turned.

no issue with the front, its just the rear with a issue, any shop should do the front

[Kevin in NJ]

Not sure if this helps anyone....

Here is a picture showing the adapters needed to mount the front and rear drums on a Barrett Drum Doktor.

I have the dimensions of the adapters on paper next to the adapter.

Keep in mind the front drums need the races installed for these adapters to work. The adapters have a rounded edge that mates inside the bearing race. You need to be sure the adapters have not been dropped or beat on. The ones we have needed to be recut on a lathe. They had been used for other purposes and were probably beat on a little.

Notice the rear insert has a wide flange that is pressed against by the hub.

I have also included a picture of the Drum Doktor doing a front drum and a Barrett Brake Doktor sanding the shoes to size and centering them at the same time. A little extra bit of info. The Drum Doktor does a step wise cut so you do not get a spiral cut that can cause noise.

[allen]

thanks kevin this is a great help

[B0B]

I was aware of the problems with the cast iron drums So I bought the drum reinforcing rings instead ...I cleaned all paint off the outer rim of the drums ...Measured them carefully marking and documenting the widest point on each one ...Then measured and documented the rings widest points and marked that using a sharpie marking pen... Then filed off the "Weld bump" on the inside of the rings with a half round file ,Then made a Reinforcing ring squeezer that is simply two pieces of 18 inch threaded rod 5/16 ths or 3/8 in diameter with two pieces of square stock 1 1/2 inches wide or 2 inches wide 6 inches long it with two holes drilled in each end of the square stock ...One end has nuts on both sides of the square stock this is the bottom end you clamp it in a vice and slip a drum ring at its widest point in the squeezer at right angle to the square stock ends ,then tighten down on the ring a little at a time one turn from contact ,two turns etc. until you nget the hang of it releasing it each time and measuring to see how it comes back eventually I got them very close to being perfectly round , Then matched them up with the wheel drums with the widest part of the drum at the narrowest part of the ring for that drum ...WEll it worked out fine the car stops like it had modern brakes the pedalis firmer and higher and there is no jerking or pulling so I did not have to have the original drums turned ... I recommend the reinforcing rings they are cheaper ,easier to install, require no special tools,you can do them yourself and work very well you CAN remove them too if you need to and reinstall them on other drums ... Heat the rings in the kitchen oven on the top rack and have the oven set to Broil about 15 minutes will then remove the ring with vice grip pliers set the ring on top of the drum you have already on a heavy work bench thick board or tree stump and using a soft metal rod about 3/4 or 1 inch diameter and a two pound hammer you hammer the rings on working your way around and around ...I drove them all the way on down to the lip and they work fine ...I understand that on some model A 's if you drive them all the way to the lip they can rub on the backing plate somehow and should be about 1/8th inch out from the lip I forgot about that but luckily they do not rub on my car and work great ...One note of caution I did them one at a time one a day because my arm felt like it would drop off after hammering one of them on ...OH! one last thing I cleaned around the axle holes with a rag sprayed with carburetor cleaner and taped the axle hole shut with duct tape inside and out on the drums to keep dirt out of the bearing races while hammering ...

For what its worth ...B0B Again in Michigan

[fordcragar]

This has been an interesting exercise. My Atlas brake drum lathe, which I haven't turned an old Ford drum on it, is basically the same as Allen's FMC Brake Drum Lathe. I went out the shop and found an old Ford rear drum and with the hub still in the drum it will not go over the spindle; which is 1.00" diameter. The hole in the hub is about 0.75" diameter. Unless someone has a better way, the only way that I can to see (at least using my brake drum lathe) would be to remove the hub and then turn the drum like you would a later rear drum. Then after turning the drum, re-install the hub.

Larry

[Aerocraft]

ChicagoBob: I use Lee Auto Parts, 423 S. Lake Street, Aurora, IL 630-896-5095

Gar Williams

[JtownJoe]

Thanx for the info, Bob I'm putting them on my 30' Tudor shortly!

[dfish2931nc]

I think the probelm is everywhere. I'm in North Carolina. No one does the rear. I found a machine shop that has been there since early 1930's. The old machine he had is long gone. If you buy drums from Mel Gross, have him swedge and turn the rear drums. He can do it.

[Mel Gross]

I sell a lot of brake drums and have done many complete set-ups. Customer will send to me their old drums (or hubs) and I will install / swedge them onto my drums and then turn them. Just call or email if you ever need them done. Thanks Mel Gross [email protected] or 714-292-8660 / 323-728-5712

[bagpiper]

Allen, Find a shop that has an Ammco lathe with a 11/16" arbor. They should be able to resurface your drums with no problem. Send me a private message, and I'll help you find someone in your area.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by fordcragar

This has been an interesting exercise. My Atlas brake drum lathe, which I haven't turned an old Ford drum on it, is basically the same as Allen's FMC Brake Drum Lathe. I went out the shop and found an old Ford rear drum and with the hub still in the drum it will not go over the spindle; which is 1.00" diameter. The hole in the hub is about 0.75" diameter. Unless someone has a better way, the only way that I can to see (at least using my brake drum lathe) would be to remove the hub and then turn the drum like you would a later rear drum. Then after turning the drum, re-install the hub.

Larry

Larry,

When the hub and drum are swedged back together, the drum again has to be trued as the swedging process warps the drum.

Mike