The Ford Barn

Artiki · 12-24-2010, 05:08 AM

Hey guys,

Season's greetings to you all.

I'm soon to be collecting a '29 phaeton body of Australian origin. The wooden subrails are long gone and the body is coming with Brookville replacement 'rails. I've only had a '31 coupe and a '30 tudor beforehand, and I never had to work on the subrails of either, so this is new to me. I'm guessing that the subrails for a '29 phaeton are identical to the 'rails for a '29 tudor, but can anyone confirm this for me? As I'll need to buy a set of body-blocks, I'm also guessing that the same rule will apply, and that I need those for a '29 tudor?

The body will be coming 'flat-packed' so expect lots of questions in the near future as I get to work piecing it all together!

Thanks in advance.

Juggler · 12-24-2010, 06:26 AM

Hello

Late 29 and 30/31 Australian built Phaetons, to avoid high import duties, had high local content. This means that all the subrails were wooden, longitudinal and horizontal. Find out which body you have.

The steel subrails for the front half are the same as 28/29 Roadster. The rear half are similar but not identical to 28/29 Tudor but could be made to work with surgery.

I have a South American body that has just gone on an English frame. If you need any pics let me know!

Regards

Juggs

Artiki · 12-24-2010, 09:20 AM

It is definitely of the '28/'29 body style, but other than that, and that it had wooden 'rails, I know little at this stage.

Any pics you have would be gratefully received, Juggs. You can email them to [email protected] if you like, or post them here.

Juggler · 12-24-2010, 09:44 AM

This is ours. My body on one of my Dad's frames. English 14.9hp small bore.

Runs up like a little sewing machine, and probably makes similar power.

As you can see it is 'in progress'. If you want specific pics when yours arrives then let me know.

.

Artiki · 12-24-2010, 09:54 AM

Excellent. Thank you, I appreciate it.

sheppfour · 11-30-2014, 09:51 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have to replace the rear half sub rails on my 30 tudor. Can this be done without taking body apart ? Body is solid except over the rear axle.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-01-2014, 08:06 AM

Wow, this one came out of the mothballs!!

The short answer is Yes. The bigger question is if you do so, what is your plans and how do you plan to accomplish it?

pooch · 12-01-2014, 11:40 AM

Check with Hoogah.

He has an original timber based 28 phaeton.

I would guess the brookville steel subframe will bolt /rivet in.

At the lower cowl post, the OZ wood framer uses a long coach bolt to go horizontally thru the wood stringer with a square hole to hold the bolt head.

On USA steel framers, this hole is round and a rivet goes there .

When you get car, post some pics of the door sill plates, I have a feeling they are a different shape re wood to steel frame .

Artiki · 12-09-2014, 02:22 PM

As this is back from the depths, I'll update. It was a dog's dinner of a job! All was good at the front, holes lined up nicely. The 'b' posts were awkward as a fair amount was missing due to rust, but hanging the front doors first told me where those panels needed to be, so repair sections were made and the panels were fitted. It was rear of the b-panels where things got weird.

The rear doors were hung, then I offered the rear quarters and clamping them to the subrails put them were nowhere near where they needed to be. It took a lot of work, fettling, trimming, clamping and pulling to get them even close. This car is a trad-style rod, so factory-perfection was not required, and it certainly isn't perfect, but all four doors open and shut nicely and the body sits square.

If you have no option, then go in to a job like this knowing you'll be putting the hours in, otherwise I'd look for a steel-railed body and restore that instead.

Got a fire-up video here too. https://youtube.com/watch?v=zLBvTqPIi6E

Juggler · 12-09-2014, 02:51 PM

Well it only took you 4 years Darren!

Ours got finished too, in the meantime

.

Artiki · 12-09-2014, 02:56 PM

I wish it had been four years of garage time. Moved house, completed degree and changed career, all at the same time as being some sort of Dad and husband. Still, getting there now.

Just a few bits and pieces to do, then sort the interior. Ordered a trim set from Classtique last week, so looking forward to getting that in the new year.

d.j. moordigian · 12-09-2014, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artiki

Hey guys,

Season's greetings to you all.

I'm soon to be collecting a '29 phaeton body of Australian origin. The wooden subrails are long gone and the body is coming with Brookville replacement 'rails. I've only had a '31 coupe and a '30 tudor beforehand, and I never had to work on the subrails of either, so this is new to me. I'm guessing that the subrails for a '29 phaeton are identical to the 'rails for a '29 tudor, but can anyone confirm this for me? As I'll need to buy a set of body-blocks, I'm also guessing that the same rule will apply, and that I need those for a '29 tudor?

The body will be coming 'flat-packed' so expect lots of questions in the near future as I get to work piecing it all together!

Thanks in advance.

Try sending a "PM" with your email address to ....wrndln...., his
name is Rusty Nelson,....he should be able to help with photos
of his 1928 Phaeton...

pooch · 12-09-2014, 04:43 PM

Would be interesting to know what problems arose behind B pillar for an Australian based timber framer.

Were there any domestic model A phaetons made in Canada FOR Canada/USA , or was all the Ontario production destined for export ?

Was the rear section stamped out of different dies ?

It does seem strange that they are different, as Canadian export was not just to Australia .

Tudortomnz · 12-10-2014, 12:26 AM

Pooch, Model A's produced at Ontario Plant were also for domestic [ Canadian] supply. There were also other Canadian assembly plants in other provinces which did not export.
Some [RHD] were exported ''built up'', which means they were not quite complete, but basically a complete unit to be finished off at destination, as per NZ.
The Aussie A's were exported knocked down ; you had a new factory at Geelong & assembly plants in the other States. As far as I know, '28 '29's [ Phaeton, Roadster] had imported body panels which were assembled & framed in Aust.; Sedans [ except the rare fabric panelled Aussie ones]were imported [ bodies] built up & would have Ontario body numbers. For 1930, metal body panels on all A's were stamped at Geelong[ from imported dies] but probably certain panels were still imported [ of course the 'guards, bonnet, lamps, shell etc all imported] ; the idea was to have as much as possible made in Australia.
Ford Australia could alter & use anything they required, hence the many detail differences to other Canadian Model A's. Ford US let the foreign factories produce what the markets wanted ; they just wanted to sell the cars.
BTW, Ford Canada did ''export "some cars to the US, but probably to help fill export orders mainly in Sth America which was a huge market for Ford US .
Nothing is black & white.

12-24-2010, 05:08 AM	#1
Artiki Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brum... Posts: 51	Phaeton subrail query Hey guys, Season's greetings to you all. I'm soon to be collecting a '29 phaeton body of Australian origin. The wooden subrails are long gone and the body is coming with Brookville replacement 'rails. I've only had a '31 coupe and a '30 tudor beforehand, and I never had to work on the subrails of either, so this is new to me. I'm guessing that the subrails for a '29 phaeton are identical to the 'rails for a '29 tudor, but can anyone confirm this for me? As I'll need to buy a set of body-blocks, I'm also guessing that the same rule will apply, and that I need those for a '29 tudor? The body will be coming 'flat-packed' so expect lots of questions in the near future as I get to work piecing it all together! Thanks in advance.

12-24-2010, 06:26 AM	#2
Juggler Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Phoenix AZ/Bath UK Posts: 483	Re: Phaeton subrail query Hello Late 29 and 30/31 Australian built Phaetons, to avoid high import duties, had high local content. This means that all the subrails were wooden, longitudinal and horizontal. Find out which body you have. The steel subrails for the front half are the same as 28/29 Roadster. The rear half are similar but not identical to 28/29 Tudor but could be made to work with surgery. I have a South American body that has just gone on an English frame. If you need any pics let me know! Regards Juggs

12-24-2010, 09:20 AM	#3
Artiki Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brum... Posts: 51	Re: Phaeton subrail query It is definitely of the '28/'29 body style, but other than that, and that it had wooden 'rails, I know little at this stage. Any pics you have would be gratefully received, Juggs. You can email them to [email protected] if you like, or post them here.

12-24-2010, 09:54 AM	#5
Artiki Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brum... Posts: 51	Re: Phaeton subrail query Excellent. Thank you, I appreciate it.

11-30-2014, 09:51 PM	#6
sheppfour Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 3	Re: Phaeton subrail query Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have to replace the rear half sub rails on my 30 tudor. Can this be done without taking body apart ? Body is solid except over the rear axle.

12-01-2014, 08:06 AM	#7
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,972	Re: Phaeton subrail query Wow, this one came out of the mothballs!! The short answer is Yes. The bigger question is if you do so, what is your plans and how do you plan to accomplish it? __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

12-01-2014, 11:40 AM	#8
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Phaeton subrail query Check with Hoogah. He has an original timber based 28 phaeton. I would guess the brookville steel subframe will bolt /rivet in. At the lower cowl post, the OZ wood framer uses a long coach bolt to go horizontally thru the wood stringer with a square hole to hold the bolt head. On USA steel framers, this hole is round and a rivet goes there . When you get car, post some pics of the door sill plates, I have a feeling they are a different shape re wood to steel frame .

12-09-2014, 02:22 PM	#9
Artiki Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brum... Posts: 51	Re: Phaeton subrail query As this is back from the depths, I'll update. It was a dog's dinner of a job! All was good at the front, holes lined up nicely. The 'b' posts were awkward as a fair amount was missing due to rust, but hanging the front doors first told me where those panels needed to be, so repair sections were made and the panels were fitted. It was rear of the b-panels where things got weird. The rear doors were hung, then I offered the rear quarters and clamping them to the subrails put them were nowhere near where they needed to be. It took a lot of work, fettling, trimming, clamping and pulling to get them even close. This car is a trad-style rod, so factory-perfection was not required, and it certainly isn't perfect, but all four doors open and shut nicely and the body sits square. If you have no option, then go in to a job like this knowing you'll be putting the hours in, otherwise I'd look for a steel-railed body and restore that instead. Got a fire-up video here too. https://youtube.com/watch?v=zLBvTqPIi6E

12-09-2014, 02:56 PM	#11
Artiki Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brum... Posts: 51	Re: Phaeton subrail query I wish it had been four years of garage time. Moved house, completed degree and changed career, all at the same time as being some sort of Dad and husband. Still, getting there now. Just a few bits and pieces to do, then sort the interior. Ordered a trim set from Classtique last week, so looking forward to getting that in the new year.

12-09-2014, 04:43 PM	#13
pooch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: South Coast NSW Australia Posts: 2,596	Re: Phaeton subrail query Would be interesting to know what problems arose behind B pillar for an Australian based timber framer. Were there any domestic model A phaetons made in Canada FOR Canada/USA , or was all the Ontario production destined for export ? Was the rear section stamped out of different dies ? It does seem strange that they are different, as Canadian export was not just to Australia .

12-10-2014, 12:26 AM	#14
Tudortomnz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canterbury, New Zealand Posts: 1,242	Re: Phaeton subrail query Pooch, Model A's produced at Ontario Plant were also for domestic [ Canadian] supply. There were also other Canadian assembly plants in other provinces which did not export. Some [RHD] were exported ''built up'', which means they were not quite complete, but basically a complete unit to be finished off at destination, as per NZ. The Aussie A's were exported knocked down ; you had a new factory at Geelong & assembly plants in the other States. As far as I know, '28 '29's [ Phaeton, Roadster] had imported body panels which were assembled & framed in Aust.; Sedans [ except the rare fabric panelled Aussie ones]were imported [ bodies] built up & would have Ontario body numbers. For 1930, metal body panels on all A's were stamped at Geelong[ from imported dies] but probably certain panels were still imported [ of course the 'guards, bonnet, lamps, shell etc all imported] ; the idea was to have as much as possible made in Australia. Ford Australia could alter & use anything they required, hence the many detail differences to other Canadian Model A's. Ford US let the foreign factories produce what the markets wanted ; they just wanted to sell the cars. BTW, Ford Canada did ''export "some cars to the US, but probably to help fill export orders mainly in Sth America which was a huge market for Ford US . Nothing is black & white.