anti freeze in an A/B engine.

[hardtimes]

Question for any chemists among us...regarding anti freeze.
Does anti freeze 'break down' and require changing from our engines?
Anti freeze containers give info on change intervals..but is that just to sell more anti freeze? I've had same mixture of anti freeze in B engine five years...looks same now as when put in .

[MrTube]

I'm not a chemist and do not speak fact, this is merely an opinion.

On my ATVs I've been told the antifreeze lasts longer because they are not used much and are garage kept.
I still try to change it every 2 or 3 years though for good measure.

[barnstuf]

The anti freeze protection does not lessen with age. as long as no water is added to dilute the mix. However the rust inhibitor in the anti freeze does lessen its effectiveness so rust inhibitor should be added periodically. I add inhibitor annually to my cars, both Model A and modern, and all have crystal clear coolant with no rust, no cloudiness.

[Terry, NJ]

Originally Posted by MrTube

I'm not a chemist and do not speak fact, this is merely an opinion.

On my ATVs I've been told the antifreeze lasts longer because they are not used much and are garage kept.
I still try to change it every 2 or 3 years though for good measure.

On my 1999 ford E-150, I got around to changing it at about 8 or 9 years, I was busy! Glad to say, it came out as it went in. I don't know why I changed it! Another one I can't get is the two year change of brake fluid. I've never ever had a reason to drain the brake system and replace the fluid. For what? And after only two years? I do regular oil changes, Trans fluid at Mfgrs intervals. But brake fluid after two years? Yeah, Uh huh!
Terry

[brum1]

Typical replacement for anti-freeze is 2 years. (they now have extended life versions as well) Anti-freeze is hydroscopic and will abosorb moisture ultimately altering effectivness. You may also notice corrosion/deposits which is a physical sign its time to change the anti-freeze.

[Larry Brumfield]

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Antifreeze may still look green and good as new and with the proper mix do its job to prevent the water from freezing but it can become acidic over time and if it does then corrosion starts to eat at the interior of the system. A test must be performed to make this determination. So don't judge the condition of the antifreeze by appearances alone.



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[Special Coupe Frank]

One other thing - if your engine is weeping / leaking coolant into the crankcase ( not a good thing in and of itself), and that anti-freeze mix gets circulated through the oiling system, it will attack the babbit and destroy the bearings.

Just something to consider if your engine is less than perfect in terms of keeping the oil and water separate...

[Tudor40]

As antifreeze ages and becomes more acidic, you can actually record a voltage reading between the copper radiator and coolant with a voltmeter. The higher the voltage reading, the more the necessity to flush and change the coolant.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

On my 1999 ford E-150, I got around to changing it at about 8 or 9 years, I was busy! Glad to say, it came out as it went in. I don't know why I changed it! Another one I can't get is the two year change of brake fluid. I've never ever had a reason to drain the brake system and replace the fluid. For what? And after only two years? I do regular oil changes, Trans fluid at Mfgrs intervals. But brake fluid after two years? Yeah, Uh huh!
Terry

You are supposed to change brake fluid because it absorbs moisture. I am against it my self. My last truck was a 92 pickup and the line running to the rear brakes burst from rust. If the fluid had been changed a few times this would have probably not happened. However it did last 19 years and 220,000 miles without problems.

[1931 flamingo]

Special Coupe Frank: Several have said that a/freeze attacks the babbit, when I was a kid (maybe before perm a/freeze) I can remember there were alcohol mixtures to prevent freezing, would the alcohol based a/freezes also attack the babbit? Anyone, please chime in.
Paul in CT

[rob mcdonald]

The local Mercedes maintenance guy was recently telling me about a 2004 E class with 80,000 miles that the owner refused to change the brake fluid and antifreeze.

He just purchased a new automatic transmission when the transmission fluid section of the radiator corroded and leaked into the transmission. $6.2K It could have been worst…

[Dennis L Oberer]

I have always change the 50-50 gylcol in my A's every 3 years.

Dennis L Oberer
Green Bay WI

[sonny30coupe]

I have had a 98 Ford F-150 for 5 years since it had 78,000 miles on it, I have only replaced the front brakes and the oil in 5 years, It now has 287,000 miles and is kept outside.

[Larry Brumfield]

Originally Posted by Tudor40

As antifreeze ages and becomes more acidic, you can actually record a voltage reading between the copper radiator and coolant with a voltmeter. The higher the voltage reading, the more the necessity to flush and change the coolant.

Tudor is correct. You can also use chemically treated test strips that change color to indicate the pH of the antifreeze. BUT all a litmus paper reading really tells you is whether or not the antifreeze is alkaline or acidic. It doesn't tell you how much reserve alkalinity or corrosion inhibitor the antifreeze has left. Nor does an alkaline pH reading always mean the antifreeze is still good. When aluminum starts to corrode, such as with an aluminum flat head, the corroding aluminum can actually make the pH go back up!

This pH I'm referring to is a measure of the acidity and alkalinity on a scale, i.e., a pH scale. A reading of 7 is neutral. Lower numbers represent increasing acidity and higher numbers increasing alkalinity. Pure water is neutral with a pH of 7 whereas battery acid reads 2 or 3 on the pH scale while baking soda might be 10 or 11.

A low pH reading (below 8) would generally indicate bad antifreeze and a need for a change. But at the same time be aware that the newer long-life antifreeze can protect to lower pH, almost 7.

Now as Tudor suggested, you can also use an ordinary digital voltmeter. With the engine off, touch the voltmeter positive test lead to the radiator (must have good metal to metal contact). Open the radiator cap and insert the negative test lead down into the coolant. A reading of up to 0.2 volts is considered acceptable and indicates the presence of reserve alkalinity in the coolant. If the coolant reads 0.3 to 0.6 volts, it is borderline and should be recycled or replaced. A reading of 0.7 volts or more would tell you the coolant is overdue for a change.

Now having said all this, I'm trying to think if the following could somehow apply to a Model A, but corrosion in the cooling system can occur, regardless of the condition of the antifreeze, if voltage from things such as starters, ignition, etc., etc. flows through the coolant to ground rather than follow their intended ground path.

You can check for this condition using your voltmeter with the same method as stated above except do it while running the starter to crank the engine; then with the engine running and an accessory turned on such as the lights. If stray current is grounding through the coolant you'll get a voltage reading. More than 0.15 volts can corrode aluminum and 0.3 volts can be harmful to cast iron.



.

[hardtimes]

Thanks all for great response!
Ok, I'm going to check with voltmeter, since this antifreeze has been in for five years, my interest is peeked!
From what I learned here , why not run just rust inhibitor and water without minerals?
As an example of this question: I got a model A that the previous owner drained each winter for storage. In summer, he put ONLY water out of his garden hose. When I learned this, I looked into the radiator water neck...and found what I expected ,i.e.- thick rust floating on top of the water!! Well, I used radiator cleaner and a ton of rusty water came out of system. I reinstalled mineral free water(distilled) and rust inhibitor. A year later and NO rusty water...does this sound as good/better than antifreeze(of course in freeze free times/area).
Mr. Brumfield has given me another idea to cogitate....put on a high performance aluminum head as a alkaline increase/sacraficial anode, hmmm.

[fritznbud]

No anti-freeze is what i'll stick with. I just changed hoses,and caught the fresh coolant the P.O. had put in and put a little bit back in, installed a motor-meter and took a nice drive today. I have foam oozing out from the cap, drained some out, still have some ooze...but anything that will hurt my babbits isn't going in. I never change brake fluid or transmission fluid, ever.