The Ford Barn

pgerhardt · 02-08-2016, 10:52 PM

When I did the 28 Huckster pictured above I was in my 20's, single, and just starting out as a teacher. There is no doubt that I had more stamina back then. But now that I am retired and my kids have moved out, the stamina deficit is balanced out by my increase in free time and available funds for the project. The only question is which will be done first - my current restoration project, or me!

w.michael · 02-08-2016, 11:05 PM

Brent, I think it is the available TIME, not just money. There have never been so many demands on our time: spouse, work, home duties, children, grandchildren, church, civic activities, alumni (read sports) activities. I barely have time to maintain my model A, much less undertake real improvements, or another restoration. I would like very much to attend a workshop and learn how to do sheet metal repair (such as the workshops you have conducted in the past) but I simply don't have the time to devote to that. I would also be reluctant to "spend" my vacation days on this instead of on family activities. I keep thinking that maybe if I ever get to retire, I can do some of these things, but by then I'm afraid all of the knowledgeable guys will be at the nursing home. Okay, Brent is a little younger than me, but most of you guys are, well--a little long in the tooth! Don't assume it's because few people WANT these workshops. I think it's because few people can afford the time to devote to these workshops and practicing the skills needed. Yes, it's easy to learn the academics of restoration work, but it's difficult to practice the skills and become even marginally proficient. So please, those of you who are able to teach, please continue to do so. Only a few of us will be able to take advantage of your teaching, but the few people who do can then pass the skills along.

W. Michael

Mike V. Florida · 02-08-2016, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I decided I should pass on posting some, as mine are probably not in the spirit of what Steve was asking HOWEVER, it does make me wonder, why/what is it that makes someone shy away from projects like these?

FWIW, this very topic was why I hosted the Fordbarn Workshops where we all gathered and shared knowledge & techniques on doing restoration of Model-A parts. I had always hoped these type of workshops would catch on within the hobby. Will Cronkrite & I traveled all the way to Rochester, MN to assist in one workshop however to my knowledge, there has not been another workshop held anywhere else. I guess the interest in learning about Model-A restoration really is not as popular as one might believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Brent I think you are right. We have tried many different workshops. I think most would rather have some one do it for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

The "true" restorer is getting few and far between.

Pluck

I still have to work to pay the bills. I've had some financial set backs in my past (who hasn't?) so I'm not where I thought I would be at this time in my life. Like w.michael said, I would love to go to these but would rather spend limited vacation time with family.

todd3131 · 02-09-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Again, I will say it again, ...the cost of how to restore has never been more affordable. It costs nearly nothing to learn how to do a restoration task with all the how-to articles & videos floating around.

I don't quite understand your question but if people and especially the aging model a restorers are no longer restoring model a's for a variety of reasons why would the in best the time no matter the cost in learning how to restore them? The ones that are still restoring them probably already have the skills. I know I don't have another in me and the current car were working on I have a restoration shop doing the vast majority of the project and I'm relegating myself to the small projects and managing the process as it is this is a two to three year project and well over a 100 k will be in it.

Rowdy · 02-09-2016, 11:51 AM

Started the delivery with just a body. Bad rust and sand scouring along the lower quarters and the bottom 7" of the back panel. Beings that nothing else was left I had to buy chassis and fenders piece by piece so atleast I had the chance to be picky with almost everything else. I am back to work on the back panel as I have time. Already replaced the lower quarters although they need some patching in a few areas. Hope to have the body in primer and most of the chassis done by next fall. Rod

Steve Plucker · 02-09-2016, 01:27 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Started the delivery with just a body. Bad rust and sand scouring along the lower quarters and the bottom 7" of the back panel. Beings that nothing else was left I had to buy chassis and fenders piece by piece so atleast I had the chance to be picky with almost everything else. I am back to work on the back panel as I have time. Already replaced the lower quarters although they need some patching in a few areas. Hope to have the body in primer and most of the chassis done by next fall. Rod

So did you find all the needed wood that you have been looking for?

Pluck

Rowdy · 02-09-2016, 01:41 PM

Still needing patterns for the rain gutter wood, all of the pieces in the rear corners, the back of the roof opening and thickness and width dimensions of the floor wood. My pic's of the floor show they were lap jointed, but have conflicting info on dimensions. Getting closer, but with 2 people (HAMB ALLIANCE members kb cookout and Cowtown Speed Shop) who backed out on helping me out with the missing pieces and info the wood is at a stand still until I get money ahead enough to buy more drawings from the Benson barring a new dependable lead. I have gotten considerable amount of help on the wood from Don Graves and Roger Gash. Working with a local body man to get the T strips fixed. Not an easy repair so it is risky and impossible to find nice replacements. Rod

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 02-09-2016, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd3131

I don't quite understand your question

....but if people and especially the aging model a restorers are no longer restoring model a's for a variety of reasons why would the in best the time no matter the cost in learning how to restore them? The ones that are still restoring them probably already have the skills.

I think what I meant to say was not really a question, but more of a statement based on my experiences. When my father first started restoring Model-As in the late 1950s, they were charting thru very vague territory since the Judging Stds, the repro Service Bulletins, Fordbarn, Youtube were not around, ...and the Restorer and the M.A.N. were in their infancy. Today, a person really does not need to research anything, --OR try to figure it out on their own. Instead they just find a forum and ask a question and folks race to give them instruction.

Personally I feel there are still quite a few Model-As still being worked on. You asked why should someone invest in the time to learn how to restore. My personal view is because it makes a person a better asset to society. Someone who is diligent in learning a skill, -no matter how small or insignificant, is a better worker for their employer, and a better mechanic in general. It takes reasoning, focusing, hand-to-eye coordination, problem solving, perseverance, and several other traits to restore a vehicle. Surely folks would agree that the more someone uses any of those skills, the better that person will be at performing the next task which is more difficult. A great example is Will Cronkrite. Will has used Model-A restorations as a springboard where he is now working on Bugatti & Rolls'. Others here fall into a similar category.

todd3131 · 02-09-2016, 02:44 PM

[QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1238570]I think what I meant to say was not really a question, but more of a statement based on my experiences. When my father first started restoring Model-As in the late 1950s, they were charting thru very vague territory since the Judging Stds, the repro Service Bulletins, Fordbarn, Youtube were not around, ...and the Restorer and the M.A.N. were in their infancy. Today, a person really does not need to research anything, --OR try to figure it out on their own. Instead they just find a forum and ask a question and folks race to give them instruction.

Personally I feel there are still quite a few Model-As still being worked on. You asked why should someone invest in the time to learn how to restore. My personal view is because it makes a person a better asset to society. Someone who is diligent in learning a skill, -no matter how small or insignificant, is a better worker for their employer, and a better mechanic in general. It takes reasoning, focusing, hand-to-eye coordination, problem solving, perseverance, and several other traits to restore a vehicle. Surely folks would agree that the more someone uses any of those skills, the better that person will be at performing the next task which is more difficult. A great example is Will Cronkrite. Will has used Model-A restorations as a springboard where he is now working on Bugatti & Rolls'. Others here fall into a similar category.[/QUOTE

I understand what you are saying especially the last paragraph, it in general pertains to a younger generation which there is so much competition for interest. There are many programs out there that do exactly what you are saying is an advantage for society that gives a much broader scope if you will number of skills that restoring a old car just can't offer. A good example is first robotics in the schools, there are many levels from legos all the way to frc which are very big robots. The skills in basic terms teach analysis, strategy, design fabrication and programing. I have been a mentor for five years and the kids are more engaged in it more than we ever were in cars at their age and ninety percent go on to four year colleges with the majority ending up in stem degrees, this is only one example. You and I are the same age and there just wasn't these opportunities when we were young so we gravitated to cars through our parents or just by interest.

I see a lot of interest in the traditional coach making skill like flop uses amoung the hot rod guys their skills are way advanced from what we are used to. I think it is out there but a tiny segment is interested in restoration of cars .

Please ignore spelling this is hard on a smart phone

Scott Owens · 02-11-2016, 08:42 AM

My problem is I enjoy the fun in the building of and bringing back old to new. That is more fun to me than actually using the project when completed. I get them out occasionally. I use the 41 Farmall regularly during the summer. My projects have been anything from Model As, Model Ts, Wheel Horse tractors, Farmall tractors, pedal cars, David Bradleys, Maytag engines, to a worn out John Deere Gator. There they sit, dry of gas, until I want to get them out. Many of my projects are sold after completion, simply to find another project to start with. None of mine are perfect when done, but mine aren't for judging anyway. I do all of the work, as that is the fun to me.

Flop · 02-11-2016, 08:53 AM

just not much restoration work any more . all hot rods for the most part .

last one i did

pgerhardt · 02-12-2016, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Owens

My problem is I enjoy the fun in the building of and bringing back old to new. That is more fun to me than actually using the project when completed. I get them out occasionally. I use the 41 Farmall regularly during the summer. My projects have been anything from Model As, Model Ts, Wheel Horse tractors, Farmall tractors, pedal cars, David Bradleys, Maytag engines, to a worn out John Deere Gator. There they sit, dry of gas, until I want to get them out. Many of my projects are sold after completion, simply to find another project to start with. None of mine are perfect when done, but mine aren't for judging anyway. I do all of the work, as that is the fun to me.

I know how you feel. I got back into the hobby after having experienced a mild stroke a couple of years ago. I thought that re-aquiring all the skills and knowledge I had back in the 70's, along with overcoming the problems and challenges of a restoration, would be good for my brain. (At least that is what I told my wife!

) So yes, I find the restoration process as much fun as driving the car.

BTW I would kill for a wonderful building and space like yours. You are a lucky guy!

George Miller · 05-01-2016, 11:30 AM

1930 Tudor in the weeds.jpg

1930 Tudor with flath head v8 done.jpgHere is a 1930 tudor that I did a few years back.

George Miller · 05-01-2016, 11:33 AM

Here is what it looked like when we first saw it.

1Tudoor · 05-01-2016, 01:56 PM

What a great post , you guys are my hero's !
Should be an inspiration to those either into a project or contemplating one .
I would think a knowledge of where to look for used parts rather than buy new has to be part of a successful restorers process unless cost is no problem .
I recently found a guy about 15 min from my house who has a bunch of A stuff but he doesn't advertise so who would know ?
He was currently dismembering a rusty doodle bug whereby if I had room in my pole barn , would have made an offer as he said he was going to scrap it

I bought a good head for $60 .

Tom Wesenberg · 05-01-2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Here is what it looked like when we first saw it.

And to think in 1971 I turned down a Model A coupe for $40 because it needed paint and upholstery.

Afordman31 · 05-01-2016, 02:48 PM

Here's mine.

pgerhardt · 05-01-2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Again, I will say it again, ...the cost of how to restore has never been more affordable. It costs nearly nothing to learn how to do a restoration task with all the how-to articles & videos floating around.

I think you may have answered your own question about the lack of interest in workshops. Why travel hundreds of miles and arrange for lodging to go to a workshop, when you can get the information on line? At the other end of the spectrum there are skills (like welding and metal shaping) for which I would love to get one on one hands on instruction, but where I don't feel a one day workshop would be enough.

Synchro909 · 05-01-2016, 05:37 PM

I'd drive some of those projects as they are. As George says in post #5, the ragged looking ones get the lookers at a show or in the street and you are not afraid to leave it parked somewhere for fear it will get scratched. You are able to use it in a way you'd never use a show car. These are not all Ford but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4O95p_7ah8

Pilotdave · 05-01-2016, 05:59 PM

My Tudor needs some body work. I'd love to be able to work on it with someone who knows what he's doing, has the tools and has the patience to let me learn while we do it together. That combination is pretty hard to find. Why do I want it? Because I know that accomplishing any one or several of the steps that will be needed once or twice won't be enough to enable me to do what needs to be done on this project and get it right.

I'm sure that there are a few restorers out there who are blessed enough that "one is done" - they do it once and "own" the skill. Most of us aren't that fortunate.

Yes, we are lucky in that we can easily read great sources on most things Model A related. This is a big help, but reading the literature frequently won't translate into being able to do the project. A small example of what I'm talking about - I spent a couple hours today working on a small repair project with a friend who's a good Model A mechanic. I previously had read all the literature I could find on the topic, but that wasn't enough. But now I've seen how it's done - next time I'll be fine on my own.

So - restoration workshops are a great idea. I'd love to participate.....but it's going to take several repetitions and opportunities to practice before I have the knowledge, skills and confidence to tackle (for example) real body work on my own.

02-08-2016, 10:52 PM	#21
pgerhardt Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Danbury Ct Posts: 1,254	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... When I did the 28 Huckster pictured above I was in my 20's, single, and just starting out as a teacher. There is no doubt that I had more stamina back then. But now that I am retired and my kids have moved out, the stamina deficit is balanced out by my increase in free time and available funds for the project. The only question is which will be done first - my current restoration project, or me!

02-08-2016, 11:05 PM	#22
w.michael Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 448	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... Brent, I think it is the available TIME, not just money. There have never been so many demands on our time: spouse, work, home duties, children, grandchildren, church, civic activities, alumni (read sports) activities. I barely have time to maintain my model A, much less undertake real improvements, or another restoration. I would like very much to attend a workshop and learn how to do sheet metal repair (such as the workshops you have conducted in the past) but I simply don't have the time to devote to that. I would also be reluctant to "spend" my vacation days on this instead of on family activities. I keep thinking that maybe if I ever get to retire, I can do some of these things, but by then I'm afraid all of the knowledgeable guys will be at the nursing home. Okay, Brent is a little younger than me, but most of you guys are, well--a little long in the tooth! Don't assume it's because few people WANT these workshops. I think it's because few people can afford the time to devote to these workshops and practicing the skills needed. Yes, it's easy to learn the academics of restoration work, but it's difficult to practice the skills and become even marginally proficient. So please, those of you who are able to teach, please continue to do so. Only a few of us will be able to take advantage of your teaching, but the few people who do can then pass the skills along. W. Michael

02-09-2016, 11:51 AM	#25
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... Started the delivery with just a body. Bad rust and sand scouring along the lower quarters and the bottom 7" of the back panel. Beings that nothing else was left I had to buy chassis and fenders piece by piece so atleast I had the chance to be picky with almost everything else. I am back to work on the back panel as I have time. Already replaced the lower quarters although they need some patching in a few areas. Hope to have the body in primer and most of the chassis done by next fall. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

02-09-2016, 01:41 PM	#27
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... Still needing patterns for the rain gutter wood, all of the pieces in the rear corners, the back of the roof opening and thickness and width dimensions of the floor wood. My pic's of the floor show they were lap jointed, but have conflicting info on dimensions. Getting closer, but with 2 people (HAMB ALLIANCE members kb cookout and Cowtown Speed Shop) who backed out on helping me out with the missing pieces and info the wood is at a stand still until I get money ahead enough to buy more drawings from the Benson barring a new dependable lead. I have gotten considerable amount of help on the wood from Don Graves and Roger Gash. Working with a local body man to get the T strips fixed. Not an easy repair so it is risky and impossible to find nice replacements. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!! Last edited by Rowdy; 02-09-2016 at 02:05 PM.

02-09-2016, 02:44 PM	#29
todd3131 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: cedar rapids iowa Posts: 530	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... [QUOTE=BRENT in 10-uh-C;1238570]I think what I meant to say was not really a question, but more of a statement based on my experiences. When my father first started restoring Model-As in the late 1950s, they were charting thru very vague territory since the Judging Stds, the repro Service Bulletins, Fordbarn, Youtube were not around, ...and the Restorer and the M.A.N. were in their infancy. Today, a person really does not need to research anything, --OR try to figure it out on their own. Instead they just find a forum and ask a question and folks race to give them instruction. Personally I feel there are still quite a few Model-As still being worked on. You asked why should someone invest in the time to learn how to restore. My personal view is because it makes a person a better asset to society. Someone who is diligent in learning a skill, -no matter how small or insignificant, is a better worker for their employer, and a better mechanic in general. It takes reasoning, focusing, hand-to-eye coordination, problem solving, perseverance, and several other traits to restore a vehicle. Surely folks would agree that the more someone uses any of those skills, the better that person will be at performing the next task which is more difficult. A great example is Will Cronkrite. Will has used Model-A restorations as a springboard where he is now working on Bugatti & Rolls'. Others here fall into a similar category.[/QUOTE I understand what you are saying especially the last paragraph, it in general pertains to a younger generation which there is so much competition for interest. There are many programs out there that do exactly what you are saying is an advantage for society that gives a much broader scope if you will number of skills that restoring a old car just can't offer. A good example is first robotics in the schools, there are many levels from legos all the way to frc which are very big robots. The skills in basic terms teach analysis, strategy, design fabrication and programing. I have been a mentor for five years and the kids are more engaged in it more than we ever were in cars at their age and ninety percent go on to four year colleges with the majority ending up in stem degrees, this is only one example. You and I are the same age and there just wasn't these opportunities when we were young so we gravitated to cars through our parents or just by interest. I see a lot of interest in the traditional coach making skill like flop uses amoung the hot rod guys their skills are way advanced from what we are used to. I think it is out there but a tiny segment is interested in restoration of cars . Please ignore spelling this is hard on a smart phone

02-11-2016, 08:42 AM	#30
Scott Owens Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Trinity, Alabama Posts: 137	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... My problem is I enjoy the fun in the building of and bringing back old to new. That is more fun to me than actually using the project when completed. I get them out occasionally. I use the 41 Farmall regularly during the summer. My projects have been anything from Model As, Model Ts, Wheel Horse tractors, Farmall tractors, pedal cars, David Bradleys, Maytag engines, to a worn out John Deere Gator. There they sit, dry of gas, until I want to get them out. Many of my projects are sold after completion, simply to find another project to start with. None of mine are perfect when done, but mine aren't for judging anyway. I do all of the work, as that is the fun to me.

02-11-2016, 08:53 AM	#31
Flop Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: pittsburgh pa Posts: 576	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... just not much restoration work any more . all hot rods for the most part . last one i did __________________ Please call or email while website is down! 412 867 1659 [email protected] https://www.facebook.com/flop.custom

05-01-2016, 11:30 AM	#33
George Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NC Posts: 2,975	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... 1930 Tudor in the weeds.jpg 1930 Tudor with flath head v8 done.jpgHere is a 1930 tudor that I did a few years back.

05-01-2016, 01:56 PM	#35
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... What a great post , you guys are my hero's ! Should be an inspiration to those either into a project or contemplating one . I would think a knowledge of where to look for used parts rather than buy new has to be part of a successful restorers process unless cost is no problem . I recently found a guy about 15 min from my house who has a bunch of A stuff but he doesn't advertise so who would know ? He was currently dismembering a rusty doodle bug whereby if I had room in my pole barn , would have made an offer as he said he was going to scrap it I bought a good head for $60 . Last edited by 1Tudoor; 05-01-2016 at 02:03 PM.

05-01-2016, 05:37 PM	#39
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,434	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... I'd drive some of those projects as they are. As George says in post #5, the ragged looking ones get the lookers at a show or in the street and you are not afraid to leave it parked somewhere for fear it will get scratched. You are able to use it in a way you'd never use a show car. These are not all Ford but.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4O95p_7ah8 __________________ When all is said and done, more is said than done. That's why we judge people on what they do, not what they say. I sometimes wonder what happened to the people who asked me for directions. If I am not in trouble, I've done something wrong.

05-01-2016, 05:59 PM	#40
Pilotdave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Grafton, MA Posts: 1,311	Re: Restoration of the worst Model A/AA part ever... My Tudor needs some body work. I'd love to be able to work on it with someone who knows what he's doing, has the tools and has the patience to let me learn while we do it together. That combination is pretty hard to find. Why do I want it? Because I know that accomplishing any one or several of the steps that will be needed once or twice won't be enough to enable me to do what needs to be done on this project and get it right. I'm sure that there are a few restorers out there who are blessed enough that "one is done" - they do it once and "own" the skill. Most of us aren't that fortunate. Yes, we are lucky in that we can easily read great sources on most things Model A related. This is a big help, but reading the literature frequently won't translate into being able to do the project. A small example of what I'm talking about - I spent a couple hours today working on a small repair project with a friend who's a good Model A mechanic. I previously had read all the literature I could find on the topic, but that wasn't enough. But now I've seen how it's done - next time I'll be fine on my own. So - restoration workshops are a great idea. I'd love to participate.....but it's going to take several repetitions and opportunities to practice before I have the knowledge, skills and confidence to tackle (for example) real body work on my own.