The Ford Barn

Ed Saniewski · 08-07-2015, 05:19 PM

A friend of mine is complaining about oil leaking out of the top of his transmission tower. He asked me if there is a seal in the tower and I told him not that I know of. He has a rubber boot that covers the top of the tower and vent hole, and that is where the oil is coming from. He runs with mostly Lucas oil, but I think he also has some 600 in there too. Is that too thin and causing the oil to splash out? I have Philips Conaco 680 oil that I use in my trans and rears, Wouldn't that better for him?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-07-2015, 05:25 PM

"Maybe" his concoction is FOAMING?? or grossly overfull??
Bill W.

redmodelt · 08-07-2015, 05:29 PM

"Lucas oil" does not tell us anything. Lucas like almost every other oil, it comes in different viscosity's and weights.

Yes 600W or similar lube would be better, just guessing because without knowing what he has in it now... There are no seals and the vent hole needs to be open.

At this point I would suggest; drain, flush and refill with the proper lube to the correct level.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-07-2015, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

"Lucas oil" does not tell us anything. Lucas like almost every other oil, it comes in different viscosity's and weights.

Yes 600W or similar lube would be better, just guessing because without knowing what he has in it now... There are no seals and the vent hole needs to be open.

At this point I would suggest; drain, flush and refill with the proper lube to the correct level.

HEY, Rufusmodelt Guy,
Remember awhile back, a poster had the same complaint? He filled it to the TOP of the case, before he put the tower on.
Bill W.

Tom Endy · 08-07-2015, 06:32 PM

Look to see if the vent hole in the base of the tower is plugged. it is in the back right above the floor board. Push a wire through it to open it up if it is plugged.

Tom Endy

JohnLaVoy · 08-07-2015, 07:31 PM

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We wrote about this a few years ago. The "600W" trans fluid is not really suited for this application. It foams up at high rpm. We found 140W at 75% and 25% STP have you the viscosity of the 600W when Model As were new and the tackifier needed for use in straight cut gear applications.

redmodelt · 08-07-2015, 08:06 PM

Sorry but I know of a number of transmissions that have the 600w filled to the proper level and are just fine that are driven at normal Highway speeds.

Who is we and do you have a link to that discussion?

Bill must have missed his follow up and yes sorta. There are so many shooting lube out the top, side, back front it hard to keep track!

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-07-2015, 10:14 PM

Why not use a quality 140W in the trans & diff?
Bill W.

Ed Saniewski · 08-08-2015, 06:38 AM

Bill, I use a 140W oil in the overdrive trans, but thought that would be too thin for the straight cut gears of the model A.
Tom ,we are in the process of cleaning out and rebuilding his trans after one of his roller bearings in the cluster gear came apart at the MARC meet in Niagara Falls.I will make sure the hole is cleaned out.

Benson · 08-08-2015, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Bill, I use a 140W oil in the overdrive trans, but thought that would be too thin for the straight cut gears of the model A.
Tom ,we are in the process of cleaning out and rebuilding his trans after one of his roller bearings in the cluster gear came apart at the MARC meet in Niagara Falls.I will make sure the hole is cleaned out.

I also had a roller bearing come apart in the cluster gear ... made the loudest noise in second gear that Steve Becker at Bert's had ever heard.

I had reused the roller bearings on a rebuild because " the rollers looked good and were not pitted".

What I did not notice was that the "pins" that secure the rollers in the cage were badly worn to the point that the pins were just "sharp points".

One roller had the holes in the cage "worn to twice the normal size".

When the bearing came apart it allowed the cluster gear to move up/down on the shaft.

This ruined a brand new Mark Cluster and second slider gear. The second gear mating surfaces were badly worn.

Note all gears were new when rebuilt.

Mitch//pa · 08-08-2015, 08:47 AM

Reusing old trans bearings is like building an automatic and reusing the clutches / bands.
Everyone should be familiar with Tom Endys transmission prudence article which gives you a list of the common things to replace on a tear down.
Much of it is common sense

Bob Bidonde · 08-08-2015, 08:50 AM

The maximum oil level in the transmission is fixed by the height of the fill hole unless oil was added with the gearshift off.

Benson · 08-08-2015, 08:59 AM

Yes ... but 35 years ago when I did the rebuild there was no internet, or Ford Barn ....

Not even ASE.

Much of it then was common sense!

I know I should have been a "Know it all" but I was busy working 60 or 70 hours a week fixing IBM computers and dealing with thousands of bulletins and tech tips at 2 o'clock in the morning ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Reusing old trans bearings is like building an automatic and reusing the clutches / bands.
Everyone should be familiar with Tom Endys transmission prudence article which gives you a list of the common things to replace on a tear down.
Much of it is common sense

Benson · 08-08-2015, 10:28 AM

For the record I am going to come right out and say it:

1. I post my experiences like this one so that maybe some new folks can learn from them and not repeat the same mistake.

2. I do not do this so that I can be called stupid on this forum ...

I have many more things to post that I have learned in 53 years of "Model A-ing" that I have not posted and I will not do it anymore.

just saying ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benson

I also had a roller bearing come apart in the cluster gear ... made the loudest noise in second gear that Steve Becker at Bert's had ever heard.

I had reused the roller bearings on a rebuild because " the rollers looked good and were not pitted".

What I did not notice was that the "pins" that secure the rollers in the cage were badly worn to the point that the pins were just "sharp points".

One roller had the holes in the cage "worn to twice the normal size".

When the bearing came apart it allowed the cluster gear to move up/down on the shaft.

This ruined a brand new Mark Cluster and second slider gear. The second gear mating surfaces were badly worn.

Note all gears were new when rebuilt.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-08-2015, 12:21 PM

When rebuilding a trans, parts list should begin with, ALL, BEARINGS, SEALS & GASKETS!!!
Bill W.

08-07-2015, 05:19 PM	#1
Ed Saniewski Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Denville NJ Posts: 975	Transmission Tower leaks A friend of mine is complaining about oil leaking out of the top of his transmission tower. He asked me if there is a seal in the tower and I told him not that I know of. He has a rubber boot that covers the top of the tower and vent hole, and that is where the oil is coming from. He runs with mostly Lucas oil, but I think he also has some 600 in there too. Is that too thin and causing the oil to splash out? I have Philips Conaco 680 oil that I use in my trans and rears, Wouldn't that better for him? __________________ Model A Ford Club of New Jersey http://www.mafcnj.org Model A Pick Up Owners and Enthusiasts https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/group.php?groupid=5

08-07-2015, 05:25 PM	#2
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Transmission Tower leaks "Maybe" his concoction is FOAMING?? or grossly overfull?? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-07-2015, 05:29 PM	#3
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,410	Re: Transmission Tower leaks "Lucas oil" does not tell us anything. Lucas like almost every other oil, it comes in different viscosity's and weights. Yes 600W or similar lube would be better, just guessing because without knowing what he has in it now... There are no seals and the vent hole needs to be open. At this point I would suggest; drain, flush and refill with the proper lube to the correct level.

08-07-2015, 06:32 PM	#5
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,168	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Look to see if the vent hole in the base of the tower is plugged. it is in the back right above the floor board. Push a wire through it to open it up if it is plugged. Tom Endy

08-07-2015, 07:31 PM	#6
JohnLaVoy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Rocklin, CA Posts: 779	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) We wrote about this a few years ago. The "600W" trans fluid is not really suited for this application. It foams up at high rpm. We found 140W at 75% and 25% STP have you the viscosity of the 600W when Model As were new and the tackifier needed for use in straight cut gear applications.

08-07-2015, 08:06 PM	#7
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,410	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Sorry but I know of a number of transmissions that have the 600w filled to the proper level and are just fine that are driven at normal Highway speeds. Who is we and do you have a link to that discussion? Bill must have missed his follow up and yes sorta. There are so many shooting lube out the top, side, back front it hard to keep track!

08-07-2015, 10:14 PM	#8
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Why not use a quality 140W in the trans & diff? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-08-2015, 06:38 AM	#9
Ed Saniewski Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Denville NJ Posts: 975	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Bill, I use a 140W oil in the overdrive trans, but thought that would be too thin for the straight cut gears of the model A. Tom ,we are in the process of cleaning out and rebuilding his trans after one of his roller bearings in the cluster gear came apart at the MARC meet in Niagara Falls.I will make sure the hole is cleaned out. __________________ Model A Ford Club of New Jersey http://www.mafcnj.org Model A Pick Up Owners and Enthusiasts https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/group.php?groupid=5

08-08-2015, 08:47 AM	#11
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Transmission Tower leaks Reusing old trans bearings is like building an automatic and reusing the clutches / bands. Everyone should be familiar with Tom Endys transmission prudence article which gives you a list of the common things to replace on a tear down. Much of it is common sense

08-08-2015, 08:50 AM	#12
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 4,113	Re: Transmission Tower leaks The maximum oil level in the transmission is fixed by the height of the fill hole unless oil was added with the gearshift off. __________________ Bob Bidonde

08-08-2015, 12:21 PM	#15
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Transmission Tower leaks When rebuilding a trans, parts list should begin with, ALL, BEARINGS, SEALS & GASKETS!!! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"