Tudor vs coupe-$$$

[ModelAMike1930]

I have seen a huge price rise for pickups. I was searching for one and finally found one, needs work but I enjoy restoring it I work on it a little bit everyday.

[bikejunk]

when I was looking for my A there were more than a few that were for sale in the 12,-15 thousand range that the owners totals were well over 20Gs just in parts paint and drive train rebuilding so do it just comes down to how much you really want to loose on a total restoration .. I bought an original paint and interior running car that I put over 4 grand into besides the original purchase price... if I ever sell it ... well I had a lot of fun for 4,000 bucks

[holdover]

If you are new to As and want to get into it quickly find either a coupe or a tudor that has already been done correctly and try to buy it at a fair price(these models because they are what you stated). If you do not know what you are looking at, join a club and find a member that knows what to look for, maybe you'll be lucky and have a MARC judge as a member. If you plan on doing it yourself and believe you can do it, double the price of all the parts that you have added up in a catalog, because I guarantee you'll find other stuff that needs work. If you cannot do body and paint , that will be one of the biggest expenses, along with correct interior.. As stated before I would like to have one of each but my retired budget is limited.. Another suggestion is try driving each style if you are not sure about Model As, you might like one over another.

I have a Coupe and a PU, but can't get the two Grand kids in either at the same time, so my next one will either be a tudor or a slant window, but I'll search and find one restored to my standards and drive it home...and park it next to the other two... Good luck with your search, alot of good advice in the above posts.

[J Wade]

I have a Tudor because I feel safer with my grandkids in there than in a rumble seat or a four door. And they are priceless. I know this isn't what you were asking, just my thoughts.

[DougVieyra]

Brent in Tennessee - ". . . I would venture a guess my comments were as accurate as someone's bogus 'polls' and market analysis!!
_________________________________

Right you are Brent ! I could not agree more. And you did say that you were going to 'spin this in a different direction.'

I sometime have a little fun dancing around the point, as with my 'precise answer' comments.

- Doug Vieyra, spin Doktor of hyperbole and National Vice President of Prevaricators of America, Second Vice Chair of Whoppers & Tall Tales.

[Mike V. Florida]

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With the coupe, if you give up on the restoration, the body is worth more to Hot Rodders then the Tudor.

[DougVieyra]

Yes, Mike, I quite agree. Sadly I am finding that a large segment of those buying Model A's - particularly those Model A's that are already restored, are being bought by those who want to use it as an excellent 'starting point' for their transformation into a 'Hot Rod'.
So from that stand point, I too would say that the Coupe stands a better chance of getting the higher resale value.

- Doug Vieyra, Eureka, Calif

[Cracker39]

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I think that a chopped and lowered Tudor is just as appealing as a Coupe - but I'd hate to see any Model A fall victim to that fate!

[bart78]

30-31 Tudor with a wedge chop on 32 rails. Is a very good looking hot rod. Plenty of old bodies out there to use to.

[Cracker39]

Originally Posted by bart78

30-31 Tudor with a wedge chop on 32 rails. Is a very good looking hot rod. Plenty of old bodies out there to use to.

Yep - the wedge chop is what I was thinking about!

[Kevin in NJ]

I agree with Brent on the Vicky. It has a desired style and commands enough money that you could do a decent restoration on one and break even. It is not rare enough or extra fancy that certain parts restorations costs are high. A cabby has the cost of plating along with the added cost of getting a working top on the car. Plus the vicky can haul 4 or 5 people inside which is better for a family.

A lot of guys say they are doing this for fun, but really? For most people getting 20-30K in the hole is not good economics. I figure you shoot for break even. This makes many unrestored cars really off the table as the initial cost is way over reasonable. By the time you add in cost of restoration you have more then twice what the thing is worth into it, not a very good use of your money.

I would add the slant window fordor is a pretty good car to consider. It has passenger carry capacity and it is NOT a wood based body like the vicky keeping time and money down in a restoration. It has that extra styling of the slant which makes it desirable enough to help with return on investment.

[Rex_A_Lott]

The most remarkable thing I noticed is this guy registered in January of this year and was able to pick "1929" as a username?
I would have thought that one got scarfed up years ago.
I agree with all the others...you buy either one because you enjoy tinkering with old cars, not for an investment. This applies whether you start with a box of parts or a fully restored car. These cars require a little ability and some routine maintenance, even after they are "finished".
I'd recommend you drive a nice one of each before you decide.
Good Luck

[DougVieyra]

No one (well, not a studied investor) buys an old air-cooled VolksWagan for investment. I have as my 'everyday' car a 1969 VW (Beetle / Bug) that I bought new in 1970. $1,385. I have used this car as my 'driver' when ever not using my Model A. Last year (after 45 years) it finally needed a paint job. It cost me $4,000 to get it painted. If it were just a 'car' the cost of a paint job would give me pause. But as it is a 'family member', as well as a 'close personal friend', I forked over the $4,000. Other than the new paint job, the car has not been 'restored'. It's value today : between $3,000 and $4,000.

I strongly suspect that the Model A today is in a similar situation, even though the dollar amount sits in the $15,000 - $25,000 range.

- Doug Vieyra

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

No one (well, not a studied investor) buys an old air-cooled VolksWagan for investment.


I strongly suspect that the Model A today is in a similar situation, even though the dollar amount sits in the $15,000 - $25,000 range.

- Doug Vieyra

Wow, I dunno if THAT is an accurate statement! The last I checked, the Hebmuller is an air-cooled Volkswagen, ...and they were fetching on the upper side of $150k! That seems like a pretty decent ROI!!

Even some of the air-cooled Kombi Transporters (Bus) fetch more money than an average 68C or a 180A. Price a restored 'barn-door' and see how much they will set you back. Now isn't it ironic the restored Type III Stationwagons will bring more than a typical Model-A Tudor, ...and the split Type 1 --and earlier V-dubs bring better than $25k with some busting the $50k mark. Seems like those are a decent ROI too. Maybe you were referring a Super Beetle with that $$ thingie!

.

BTW, below is a 1950 split we are doing a full frame-up on for a customer out of Kansas City.


.

[DougVieyra]

Brent when most of today's public think of air-cooled 'VolksWagen' , they think of the Bug - Officially designated as "Type 1" (called 'The Beetle'), with more than 21.5 million units made between 1938 and 2003. Most people do not think of the Karman-Gia convertible (my favorite), they do not think of the VW 'Thing' (my second best favorite), and they do not think of Westphalia Camper (my third best favorite) when "VW" is mentioned (although they most certainly are variants). What most people think of is the air-cooled, rear-engined Tudor Sedan (Beetle/Bug). It was their numbers (21.5 Million) that surpassed the production of the Model T (15 million), and it was the Beetle (Bug) that became the icon of 'VW'. It was not the semi-custom-made, limited production (only 696 units made) Hebmuller (known and sold as a Hebmuller, not VW), and others of that ilk.

Esoteric vehicles of all marques always demand a highly dis-proportionate amount of interest amongst collectors. 'One of the earliest', 'Rare', "Limited Production", "Unique", etc. all fit outside the scope of the millions of air-cooled VWs that are seen driving down America's roads today.

Also, Brent, I doubt that there are very many of today's drivers who would even recognize any of the "VW's" that you mention (the Hebmuller does look close to the untrained eye). Those are collectors cars, because they do reach outside the common vision of the "VW". They are rarely, if ever, seen on the roads today, Unlike the millions of Beatles/Bugs that still are seen driving down our roads, and in our parking lots.

I think that the over-whelming number of readers of these posts will think of the Tudor "Beetle" or the "Bug" when they read my post regarding the "VW". I doubt very much that many will think "Hebmuller" or "Kombi Transporters". Of course, I could be wrong. I may very well be 'out of touch' with what most people think of when one says that they drive an air-cooled VW.

When "VW" is mentioned, perhaps most folks do think of a Hebmuller, or a Kombi Transporter. If a Hebmuller (total production of only 696 units) is what most people think of when I say "VW", then Brent, I would want to quickly retract my statement, and indeed, say (in that narrow context) that a VW might very well be worth over a $150,000. However, I don't think that there are very many VW that sell for $150,000. I did look into it, and I did not find any.

But, Brent, your point is well taken. For many that are deep into professional car restoration, or collecting VWs, or once had a Westy themselves, the term 'VW' is too wide a word to best define a specific model / Type. But let's just say when I refer to VolksWagen, I am referring to the Type 1 Beetle, or what German VW marketing and people called "Kafer" (Beetle).

And in that regard, I still say that the 21.5 million VW Beatles (not the 100 remaining "Hebmuller" VWs) are subject to the same fate as the Restored Ford Model A - today's restoration costs exceed the resale value of the over-whelming majority of Model A's.

- Doug Vieyra; I no longer own a Radclyffe Cabriolet, or a Type 18A (Astro-Tatra) 'VW'.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

...Volkswagen, ... Type III Stationwagon....

I had one of these, was a great little car when new, just didn't live up to all the hype over it's life with me.

[BlueSunoco]

The dollar thing with cars is a strange mind set. It seems like most of us Model A owners fret over ROI, can I make a profit? etc. etc. That's natural I guess.

But we will run down to the local car dealer and buy a new pickup and plop down $45,000- $50,000 and not think twice. Some go higher. In 8-10 years that thing is about worn out and has a value around 6 grand, maybe. It's OK in our mind to eat 45K on a new vehicle but not a Model A Ford.

Granted, the Model A will not do what that new pickup can and you're not really comparing apples to apples the point is the money 'lost'.

It has been my experience also the last few years, and I blame the 'reality' TV car shows, EVERYbody and their brother-in-law wants to get your collector car on the cheap, 'flip it' and pocket a big profit, puff out their chests, and proclaim 'I da man ain't I slick?' I get real and I mean real tired of guys approaching me wanting to buy my car so I just toss out absolutely stupid dollars to them, they often get madbut I say 'You came to me I didn't approach you.'

Had this again just last week I just needed to vent Some guy from Missouri driving around with a car hauler a local at the restaurant sent him down to my house. I'd just as soon have the Jehovah Witnesses drop by!!

[Anteek29]

Either a tudor or a coupe with whitewalls will always bring more (wink).

[montanafordman]

Thankfully common sense doesn't always enter into it, and its why some get saved. My coupe was my grandfathers, and while thankfully I didn't have to pay to purchase the car, I still might "loose" money on it by the time I'm done. The car doesn't come with a price in my mind though, and I'll hopefully never have to sell it so its a number on paper and doesn't mean anything until the day it is sold, hopefully after my time. I could just as well be spending the time and money spent restoring it doing other things for entertainment that aren't as tangible and lasting as a vintage car. So in that sense restoring a car for more than its worth is still a better investment than other forms of recreation/entertainment. I have also met a lot of great people in the Model A hobby and had some fun with Model A related events, gatherings, workshops so there could be an additional intangible value placed on that also.

[DougVieyra]

BlueSunoco, post 37, has hit upon a very pertinent point. For those who think about the Model A in terms of profit and investment, I understand their viewpoint.
However, for the rest of us, it is an enjoyable 'hobby' - entertainment and recreation. Much like skiing, boating, fishing, hunting, etc. Just like those pastimes, money is spent for the amusement and enjoyment of the moment. It is a thing that enriches our lives. And put in that perspective, in the BIG PICTURE, it really isn't a great deal of money to 'loose' for the rewards that it/they bring. I think very few of us (as a hobby) give much (if any) thought to R.O.I. - Return on Investment.
- That is why some of us buy WhiteWall tires. It gives us pleasure, and ROI is of little consideration. We convert a Coupes trunk into a Rumble Seat, for our own pleasure, and do not think about ROI. We install 'improvements' because it (we think) is a good thing for us and the car - we don't think about ROI.