The Ford Barn

elwood · 03-10-2012, 08:11 PM

Well I took this 3 speed top loader out of my 50 F1 and I scored this overdrive today, and Id sure like to put it in my F1.
Looks like its goanna a pain, not to mention its a side loader.
Any thoughts guys ?
thanks

Will Kimble · 03-10-2012, 08:28 PM

Well the good is that some F1s had side shift transmissions, so that part of the swap (column, linkage) should be pretty seamless. Bad is that it looks like the solenoid will land right about where the F1 crossmember lives.

Seems like Chassis Engineering has some engine/trans swap stuff for F1s, I bet there is a tubular trans crossmember that would be a good match for the rear mount on the overdrive. Good luck, looks like a cool idea to me!

Will Kimble

Ken/Alabama · 03-10-2012, 09:18 PM

Early 50 F1 pickups had the floor shift then they were all column shift. Shouldn't be too hard to find a column to change it over.i would defiantly make the swap if it were mine. You could fab a new xmember and probably have to shorten the driveshaft.

elwood · 03-11-2012, 12:16 AM

I kinda like the floor shift, im wondering if i can find a top loader case that the overdrive unit will bolt to ?

expavr · 03-11-2012, 03:16 AM

Its possible to keep the floor shift look by adapting a floor shift tower to operated a column shift trans or by using an aftermarket Hurst shifter. The attached photos show a 49 Merc sideshift O/D that I adapted to function as a floor shifter. I took an early Ford floor shift tower, removed the shifting forks and modified it with bypass brackets that work on modified trans shift linkage. the swap required machining and fabrication which wasn't cheap, but the original look was important to me. Check out the attached article from the HAMB regarding the use of an aftermarket shifter like Hurst to accomplish the same thing. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=530470

rotorwrench · 03-11-2012, 10:17 AM

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The (early)top loaders were never set up for overdrive so there are no (early type)top loader cases that will work with the Borg Warner electric overdrive the way it was engineered. The back of the case is completely different and the reverse lockout mechanism is part of the side shift cover assembly. The idea expavr has is the best one going. The electric shift solenoid can be placed below the transmission if you can find the rocker plate set up used on some convertible cars. I've see pictures of home fabricated set ups that mimic the rocker solenoid shifter in order to clear crossmembers and other frame members.

38 coupe · 03-11-2012, 11:01 AM

This has been discussed at length on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum in this thread. There are many options for overdrive that I cover in this post. My recommendation is to swap a 3.00 ratio 9 inch rear axle in and use a heavy three transmission since all of this can be done with no cutting of the frame.

rotorwrench, the T86 is a top loader and a lot of them have overdrive. A Jeep 3 speed shifter bolts right on. Check this out: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...t:429,r:27,s:0

rotorwrench · 03-11-2012, 06:16 PM

[Quote from 38 Coupe]rotorwrench, the T86 is a top loader and a lot of them have overdrive.

You are correct but there were never any engineered to work on the flat heads as installed in pick ups of the F1 and early F100 era. The Borg Warner narrow rectangular bolt pattern will work with the 8BA/EAB family passenger car bell housing and clutch set ups. You just have to mach a clutch plate to the type of input spline. The late 51 Mercury cast iron bellhousing would work in an F1 with the later 4-bolt trans attach pattern as long as it's the narrow pattern. The clutch equalizer will bolt right up. Some of the T-86s with R-11 overdrive are not that easy to find nowdays. The old R-10s are still pretty easy to find.

It's a lot of work no matter how you do it. There are no just "Bolt In" set ups. Something always had to be modified. The solenoids still stick out the side just like the early set ups do.

expavr · 03-11-2012, 01:38 PM

My hat's off to whomever put together that list of Trans swaps identified in the FTE thread!!! Very impressive effort.
I'm not familiar with the later F series frames, but if they look anything like the 40 Tonner, the X member doesn't have to be modified. In fact its a simple mod to bolt an extension to the existing X member to catch the tailshaft support on the O/D trans. Here I'm assuming that the dimension from the front of the 50 trans/bellhousing to its rear support is the same as the early Ford large trucks. Your trans photos would seem to indicate that.
38 Coupe's suggestion of using a later 3.00 differential has merit. Couple that to a set of 30+ " diameter wheels and you'd get down the road at a good clip, although you'd lose the benefit of some low end torque if that's important. Google Engine RPM/Tire Size/Speed Calculator and it will show a range gear ratio, tire size options to consider.
Good luck with whatever you decide. Anything that makes these trucks more driveable is worth the effort.

38 coupe · 03-11-2012, 10:20 PM

rotorwrench - you are correct. I was not trying to be argumentative, I was just pointing out that there was a top loaded transmission that had overdrive.

In order to maintain the low end grunt with a 3.00 rear axle you can install a heavy three transmission. These have a much wider gap first to second and second to third. The 3.71 first gear ratio of the heavy three combined with the 3.00 axle ratio restores first gear to where it is with a light three and the 3.92 rear axle.

Ol' Ron · 12-08-2014, 02:14 PM

Yes, this is quite an engineering feat, which is what I love about this hobby. There are allot of thinkers out there. Did I spell that right??

Cecil/WV · 12-09-2014, 08:28 AM

Yes, t h a t would be the correct spelling for that! LOL

tanner · 12-15-2014, 12:44 PM

I am interested in the swap from light duty 3 speed to heavy duty 3 speed as I have changed out the stock rear end to a 3:00 for better highway driving. The downside is getting started in low requires a little more clutch work. My 49 F1 is now turning 2000 rpm at 60 mph. I love the new setup but would like to try the heavy duty 3 if it is a bolt-in.

03-10-2012, 08:28 PM	#2
Will Kimble Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 179	Re: transmission help Well the good is that some F1s had side shift transmissions, so that part of the swap (column, linkage) should be pretty seamless. Bad is that it looks like the solenoid will land right about where the F1 crossmember lives. Seems like Chassis Engineering has some engine/trans swap stuff for F1s, I bet there is a tubular trans crossmember that would be a good match for the rear mount on the overdrive. Good luck, looks like a cool idea to me! Will Kimble

03-10-2012, 09:18 PM	#3
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,394	Re: transmission help Early 50 F1 pickups had the floor shift then they were all column shift. Shouldn't be too hard to find a column to change it over.i would defiantly make the swap if it were mine. You could fab a new xmember and probably have to shorten the driveshaft.

03-11-2012, 12:16 AM	#4
elwood Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dallas Posts: 1,092	Re: transmission help I kinda like the floor shift, im wondering if i can find a top loader case that the overdrive unit will bolt to ?

03-11-2012, 10:17 AM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: transmission help Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The (early)top loaders were never set up for overdrive so there are no (early type)top loader cases that will work with the Borg Warner electric overdrive the way it was engineered. The back of the case is completely different and the reverse lockout mechanism is part of the side shift cover assembly. The idea expavr has is the best one going. The electric shift solenoid can be placed below the transmission if you can find the rocker plate set up used on some convertible cars. I've see pictures of home fabricated set ups that mimic the rocker solenoid shifter in order to clear crossmembers and other frame members. Last edited by rotorwrench; 03-11-2012 at 06:23 PM. Reason: clarity

03-11-2012, 11:01 AM	#7
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,040	Re: transmission help This has been discussed at length on the Ford Truck Enthusiasts forum in this thread. There are many options for overdrive that I cover in this post. My recommendation is to swap a 3.00 ratio 9 inch rear axle in and use a heavy three transmission since all of this can be done with no cutting of the frame. rotorwrench, the T86 is a top loader and a lot of them have overdrive. A Jeep 3 speed shifter bolts right on. Check this out: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...t:429,r:27,s:0 Last edited by 38 coupe; 03-11-2012 at 11:15 AM.

03-11-2012, 06:16 PM	#8
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 17,410	Re: transmission help [Quote from 38 Coupe]rotorwrench, the T86 is a top loader and a lot of them have overdrive. You are correct but there were never any engineered to work on the flat heads as installed in pick ups of the F1 and early F100 era. The Borg Warner narrow rectangular bolt pattern will work with the 8BA/EAB family passenger car bell housing and clutch set ups. You just have to mach a clutch plate to the type of input spline. The late 51 Mercury cast iron bellhousing would work in an F1 with the later 4-bolt trans attach pattern as long as it's the narrow pattern. The clutch equalizer will bolt right up. Some of the T-86s with R-11 overdrive are not that easy to find nowdays. The old R-10s are still pretty easy to find. It's a lot of work no matter how you do it. There are no just "Bolt In" set ups. Something always had to be modified. The solenoids still stick out the side just like the early set ups do. Last edited by rotorwrench; 03-11-2012 at 06:28 PM.

03-11-2012, 01:38 PM	#9
expavr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hansville, WA Posts: 802	Re: transmission help My hat's off to whomever put together that list of Trans swaps identified in the FTE thread!!! Very impressive effort. I'm not familiar with the later F series frames, but if they look anything like the 40 Tonner, the X member doesn't have to be modified. In fact its a simple mod to bolt an extension to the existing X member to catch the tailshaft support on the O/D trans. Here I'm assuming that the dimension from the front of the 50 trans/bellhousing to its rear support is the same as the early Ford large trucks. Your trans photos would seem to indicate that. 38 Coupe's suggestion of using a later 3.00 differential has merit. Couple that to a set of 30+ " diameter wheels and you'd get down the road at a good clip, although you'd lose the benefit of some low end torque if that's important. Google Engine RPM/Tire Size/Speed Calculator and it will show a range gear ratio, tire size options to consider. Good luck with whatever you decide. Anything that makes these trucks more driveable is worth the effort.

03-11-2012, 10:20 PM	#10
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,040	Re: transmission help rotorwrench - you are correct. I was not trying to be argumentative, I was just pointing out that there was a top loaded transmission that had overdrive. In order to maintain the low end grunt with a 3.00 rear axle you can install a heavy three transmission. These have a much wider gap first to second and second to third. The 3.71 first gear ratio of the heavy three combined with the 3.00 axle ratio restores first gear to where it is with a light three and the 3.92 rear axle.

12-08-2014, 02:14 PM	#11
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,985	Re: transmission help Yes, this is quite an engineering feat, which is what I love about this hobby. There are allot of thinkers out there. Did I spell that right??

12-09-2014, 08:28 AM	#12
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,298	Re: transmission help Yes, t h a t would be the correct spelling for that! LOL

12-15-2014, 12:44 PM	#13
tanner Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Lake Norman, NC Posts: 82	Re: transmission help I am interested in the swap from light duty 3 speed to heavy duty 3 speed as I have changed out the stock rear end to a 3:00 for better highway driving. The downside is getting started in low requires a little more clutch work. My 49 F1 is now turning 2000 rpm at 60 mph. I love the new setup but would like to try the heavy duty 3 if it is a bolt-in.