The Ford Barn

signsup · 03-10-2025, 06:05 PM

Bubba converted to 12v and has starter solinoid mounted on firewall. Negative battery cable feels like it goes behind the battery down to the fram and the positive battery cable goes to the solinoid and comes off the solinoid and goes to the starter.
So has Bubba also converted to negative ground?
I know I need a replacement solinoid as this one just clicks and lightly tapping with larger and larger hammers has not fixed the issue. So I need a replacement. 12v negative ground five post like the current one? Or just three post?
I'll hang up and listen.

petehoovie · 03-10-2025, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signsup

Bubba converted to 12v and has starter solinoid mounted on firewall. Negative battery cable feels like it goes behind the battery down to the fram and the positive battery cable goes to the solinoid and comes off the solinoid and goes to the starter.
So has Bubba also converted to negative ground?
I know I need a replacement solinoid as this one just clicks and lightly tapping with larger and larger hammers has not fixed the issue. So I need a replacement. 12v negative ground five post like the current one? Or just three post?
I'll hang up and listen.

petehoovie · 03-10-2025, 06:28 PM

paul2748 · 03-10-2025, 07:34 PM

All the solenoids that I have worked with show the starter cable going to the left post (as we are looking at it and the positive going to the right post.This is how two of my cars are wired. And that is how the Ford Elecrtrical manual shows it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehoovie

1948F-1Pickup · 03-10-2025, 08:02 PM

Probably would work either way as far as the big
terminals are concerned.

Flathead Fever · 03-10-2025, 06:47 PM

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First off, has it has been converted to 12V negative ground? Does it have a 12V battery? Positive cable going to the solenoid, negative cable going from the battery to the frame. Then another ground wire probably a #10 going from the engine to the firewall. Make sure where you place the ground cables that the paint is ground off, so the cables make a good connection.

Next is the solenoid, it should be a 12V Ford starter solenoid if it was converted to 12V. It might be marked 12V, it might be marked on the back side against the firewall. Ford made a few versions. The most common one looks like the one you have and was used on everything in the 1960s. With the solenoid facing you like in the photo the large cable on the left goes to at the positive battery post. The cars other positive connections attach to this same connection on the solenoid or the positive post at the battery. The large cable on the right side of the solenoid goes to the starter. It is only hot when the starter solenoid is energized. The one small terminal you have two wires coming off of is what energizes the solenoid. It's only hot when you turn the key to the crank position. Why somebody has two wires there I don't know, should just be one. The other small wire that they did not put anything on is the ignition bypass. It sends a full 12V to the ignition just when it is cranking, it bypasses the coil's resister just when cranking for better starting.

The wires are going to short out where they ran them through the firewall without a grommet.

Pete provided an excellent photo by the time I done typing all of this.

signsup · 03-10-2025, 07:19 PM

So if I head toNAPA tomorrow, I just ask for a 12 volt Ford solinoid? Do I need to give them a vheicle or year? I'll pull the old one off the take it with me, maybe they can find a number on it.

koates · 03-10-2025, 09:03 PM

You have not stated what model Ford you have. Do you know that an original Ford dash starter button connects the small single solenoid terminal to ground when pressed. The solenoid shown in your pic is not original Ford 1930s. Solenoids dont care about POS or NEG ground but they do care about voltage 6 or 12v. Check your starter button switch and see how many terminals or wires are on the back of it. Report back. Regards, Kevin.

Tony, NY · 03-11-2025, 05:40 AM

Do not buy a cheap starter relay. It will not last. You want an American made.

38 coupe · 03-11-2025, 06:01 AM

Are you using a push button to ground the wire to activate the starter, or are you sending voltage to the solenoid to activate the starter? Later 12V Ford solenoids need power to activate, while 1950 and older Fords use ground to activate the solenoid. If you have a 1950 and older I think you need a Cole Hersey 24060 (please verify before spending money). I need to head out for work so I don't have time at the moment to look up the wiring diagram and verify myself right now.

glennpm · 03-11-2025, 08:26 AM

You haven't answered any of the required details so going to the parts store may get you another solenoid but you haven't solved the problem.

"Negative battery cable feels like it goes behind the battery down to the fram and the positive battery cable goes to the solinoid and comes off the solinoid and goes to the starter."

You need more than "feels like". Does the negative cable from the battery connect to the frame?

What type of starter switch do you have and what year is your Ford?

Do you have a 12v battery?

Disconnect both of the small wires, green and purple. Determine which of these goes to your starter switch. It is probably the purple one.

Lots of good advice has been given.

signsup · 03-11-2025, 10:31 AM

It is for my 42 Mercury that has been converted to 12v by previous owner. It has a keyed ignition with the spring loaded start position on the key switch. And, a high torque starter. Car started and ran for the month or so I have been working on it. Just yesterday it turned over but I have the gas pedal out while working on floor board and could not keep it idling and then the clicking started.
I will go down this morning and briefly touch the two positive cables together after removing the solinoid and make sure it is not a starter issue.
I picked up Bluestreak solinoid today from NAPA that matches the old solinoid mounting and posts. I'll connect up and report back.
Yes all the Bubba wiring will be replaced with vintage cloth wire when I remove the 12v gauges and clean up all the electrical. The starter switch is on the dash but I do not know if the botton works, I have a replacement button. The steering column lock and key is intact, but not functional and the steering column turns freely. As this will be a military staff car, I will replace the light switch with a military light switch to operate black out functions and I will replace the key ignition with a dog leg military type switch and use the switch to enegize the coil and the starter button to start the car.
But for now, I just want to get it started and running.

glennpm · 03-11-2025, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signsup

It is for my 42 Mercury that has been converted to 12v by previous owner. It has a keyed ignition with the spring loaded start position on the key switch. A

Okay, see diagram below

Just yesterday it turned over but I have the gas pedal out while working on floor board and could not keep it idling and then the clicking started.

It will also just click if the battery is defective or not charged sufficiently

I will go down this morning and briefly touch the two positive cables together The starter switch is on the dash but I do not know if the botton works, I have a replacement button.

You don't need this if you now have a keyed ignition switch

I will replace the key ignition with a dog leg military type switch and use the switch to enegize the coil and the starter button to start the car.
But for now, I just want to get it started and running

Okay

Now back to the green and purple wires that are now connected to the solenoid. One of those must be connected to the "S" terminal on your keyed switch.

You also need to clean the negative wire from the battery to the frame connection.

signsup · 03-11-2025, 02:18 PM

Removed old solinoid, sanded mounting screw holes down to bare metal and installed new solinoid using star washers between solinoid and firewall to dig into fresh metal. Reinstalled wires, but put the two smaller gauge wires on a different small post as I mistakenly thought the two smaller posts were idential input posts. Got nothing when turned key, so removed and replaced the smaller two wires onto the original laft hand side small post and it fires rught up and idles like a kitten. I'll deal with the braided negative cable to ground when it warms up a little more and I can get on the ground under the car. But I am back to "normal" and have lights, so presume ground is good for the moment. I wrapped some thick electrical tape around the smaller wire where it goes through the firewall to prevent shorting out until I replace the wires and will install gromets whereever something passes through the metal.

So far, it's been a good day, but I've got time to screw up. Fabricating brackets to mount military tail lights on the rear gravel shield. Sorry, gotta drill some small holes for this.

Bored&Stroked · 03-11-2025, 05:31 PM

One thing you really need to figure out is WHERE do the two smaller wires go? There should only be ONE on the terminal where you have two.

The only reason to have two would be if you had TWO different ways to start the car . . . say with a key switch and also with a button. Any wire that is supposed to actuate this solenoid should deliver +12 volts to it (momentarily - when you turn the key past "on" to "start" or press a button).

Edit: Whether it uses 12v or ground to actuate it - the definitely needs to be known. With that said, I'd still want to understand why the 2 wires?

Ken/Alabama · 03-11-2025, 06:27 PM

Standard Products SS587 is a 12 volt direct replacement for the original 6 volt solenoid using the button on the dash.

Bored&Stroked · 03-11-2025, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

Standard Products SS587 is a 12 volt direct replacement for the original 6 volt solenoid using the button on the dash.

That is a good part number to know . . . given that I believe he is used the button on the dash, then it is ground activated - not by 12V.

Bob C · 03-11-2025, 08:36 PM

This is from post #12.
It is for my 42 Mercury that has been converted to 12v by previous owner. It has a keyed ignition with the spring loaded start position on the key switch.

69a · 03-11-2025, 09:00 PM

Your symptoms sound like a low battery!
Make sure you have a full charge, or try jumping it with a known good battery before you start chasing the solenoid issue.

signsup · 03-12-2025, 05:39 AM

So, if I am negative ground and I'm leaving it 12v and have the keyed ignition now but want to wire it so I can use the starter button on the dash, can I wire it up so the key goes to the on position for energizing the coil and then use the starter button to start the starter? Or is the botton only set up to complete the ground and will not handle 12 v positive going through it? It's not a deal breaker, but I would like to go with the military on/off switch for power to coil and the starter button to start the car. Most era military vehicles would have the military on/off switch and then a foot starter switch on the floor or a push rod to the starter to activate and engage the bendix. Don't need actual wiring instructions, just wondering if the dash button with handle the set up I am envisioning.

03-10-2025, 06:28 PM	#3
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 10,143	Re: What starter solinoid do I need?

03-10-2025, 06:47 PM	#6
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,359	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) First off, has it has been converted to 12V negative ground? Does it have a 12V battery? Positive cable going to the solenoid, negative cable going from the battery to the frame. Then another ground wire probably a #10 going from the engine to the firewall. Make sure where you place the ground cables that the paint is ground off, so the cables make a good connection. Next is the solenoid, it should be a 12V Ford starter solenoid if it was converted to 12V. It might be marked 12V, it might be marked on the back side against the firewall. Ford made a few versions. The most common one looks like the one you have and was used on everything in the 1960s. With the solenoid facing you like in the photo the large cable on the left goes to at the positive battery post. The cars other positive connections attach to this same connection on the solenoid or the positive post at the battery. The large cable on the right side of the solenoid goes to the starter. It is only hot when the starter solenoid is energized. The one small terminal you have two wires coming off of is what energizes the solenoid. It's only hot when you turn the key to the crank position. Why somebody has two wires there I don't know, should just be one. The other small wire that they did not put anything on is the ignition bypass. It sends a full 12V to the ignition just when it is cranking, it bypasses the coil's resister just when cranking for better starting. The wires are going to short out where they ran them through the firewall without a grommet. Pete provided an excellent photo by the time I done typing all of this.

03-10-2025, 07:19 PM	#7
signsup Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 200	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? So if I head toNAPA tomorrow, I just ask for a 12 volt Ford solinoid? Do I need to give them a vheicle or year? I'll pull the old one off the take it with me, maybe they can find a number on it.

03-10-2025, 09:03 PM	#8
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,185	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? You have not stated what model Ford you have. Do you know that an original Ford dash starter button connects the small single solenoid terminal to ground when pressed. The solenoid shown in your pic is not original Ford 1930s. Solenoids dont care about POS or NEG ground but they do care about voltage 6 or 12v. Check your starter button switch and see how many terminals or wires are on the back of it. Report back. Regards, Kevin.

03-11-2025, 05:40 AM	#9
Tony, NY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Capital of Corruption , NY Posts: 847	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Do not buy a cheap starter relay. It will not last. You want an American made.

03-11-2025, 06:01 AM	#10
38 coupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,040	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Are you using a push button to ground the wire to activate the starter, or are you sending voltage to the solenoid to activate the starter? Later 12V Ford solenoids need power to activate, while 1950 and older Fords use ground to activate the solenoid. If you have a 1950 and older I think you need a Cole Hersey 24060 (please verify before spending money). I need to head out for work so I don't have time at the moment to look up the wiring diagram and verify myself right now.

03-11-2025, 08:26 AM	#11
glennpm Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Mid-Coast Maine Posts: 2,815	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? You haven't answered any of the required details so going to the parts store may get you another solenoid but you haven't solved the problem. "Negative battery cable feels like it goes behind the battery down to the fram and the positive battery cable goes to the solinoid and comes off the solinoid and goes to the starter." You need more than "feels like". Does the negative cable from the battery connect to the frame? What type of starter switch do you have and what year is your Ford? Do you have a 12v battery? Disconnect both of the small wires, green and purple. Determine which of these goes to your starter switch. It is probably the purple one. Lots of good advice has been given. __________________ Archives of historical but relevant older articles: ------------- Hover mouse over the links below and click! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~--------------- Rumble Seat's Notes Techno-Source-for-the-1932-thru-1953-Flathead-Ford

03-11-2025, 10:31 AM	#12
signsup Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 200	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? It is for my 42 Mercury that has been converted to 12v by previous owner. It has a keyed ignition with the spring loaded start position on the key switch. And, a high torque starter. Car started and ran for the month or so I have been working on it. Just yesterday it turned over but I have the gas pedal out while working on floor board and could not keep it idling and then the clicking started. I will go down this morning and briefly touch the two positive cables together after removing the solinoid and make sure it is not a starter issue. I picked up Bluestreak solinoid today from NAPA that matches the old solinoid mounting and posts. I'll connect up and report back. Yes all the Bubba wiring will be replaced with vintage cloth wire when I remove the 12v gauges and clean up all the electrical. The starter switch is on the dash but I do not know if the botton works, I have a replacement button. The steering column lock and key is intact, but not functional and the steering column turns freely. As this will be a military staff car, I will replace the light switch with a military light switch to operate black out functions and I will replace the key ignition with a dog leg military type switch and use the switch to enegize the coil and the starter button to start the car. But for now, I just want to get it started and running.

03-11-2025, 02:18 PM	#14
signsup Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 200	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Removed old solinoid, sanded mounting screw holes down to bare metal and installed new solinoid using star washers between solinoid and firewall to dig into fresh metal. Reinstalled wires, but put the two smaller gauge wires on a different small post as I mistakenly thought the two smaller posts were idential input posts. Got nothing when turned key, so removed and replaced the smaller two wires onto the original laft hand side small post and it fires rught up and idles like a kitten. I'll deal with the braided negative cable to ground when it warms up a little more and I can get on the ground under the car. But I am back to "normal" and have lights, so presume ground is good for the moment. I wrapped some thick electrical tape around the smaller wire where it goes through the firewall to prevent shorting out until I replace the wires and will install gromets whereever something passes through the metal. So far, it's been a good day, but I've got time to screw up. Fabricating brackets to mount military tail lights on the rear gravel shield. Sorry, gotta drill some small holes for this.

03-11-2025, 05:31 PM	#15
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,723	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? One thing you really need to figure out is WHERE do the two smaller wires go? There should only be ONE on the terminal where you have two. The only reason to have two would be if you had TWO different ways to start the car . . . say with a key switch and also with a button. Any wire that is supposed to actuate this solenoid should deliver +12 volts to it (momentarily - when you turn the key past "on" to "start" or press a button). Edit: Whether it uses 12v or ground to actuate it - the definitely needs to be known. With that said, I'd still want to understand why the 2 wires? Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 03-11-2025 at 07:43 PM.

03-11-2025, 06:27 PM	#16
Ken/Alabama Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 3,394	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Standard Products SS587 is a 12 volt direct replacement for the original 6 volt solenoid using the button on the dash.

03-11-2025, 08:36 PM	#18
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,359	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? This is from post #12. It is for my 42 Mercury that has been converted to 12v by previous owner. It has a keyed ignition with the spring loaded start position on the key switch.

03-11-2025, 09:00 PM	#19
69a Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Posts: 262	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? Your symptoms sound like a low battery! Make sure you have a full charge, or try jumping it with a known good battery before you start chasing the solenoid issue. Last edited by 69a; 03-11-2025 at 09:44 PM.

03-12-2025, 05:39 AM	#20
signsup Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 200	Re: What starter solinoid do I need? So, if I am negative ground and I'm leaving it 12v and have the keyed ignition now but want to wire it so I can use the starter button on the dash, can I wire it up so the key goes to the on position for energizing the coil and then use the starter button to start the starter? Or is the botton only set up to complete the ground and will not handle 12 v positive going through it? It's not a deal breaker, but I would like to go with the military on/off switch for power to coil and the starter button to start the car. Most era military vehicles would have the military on/off switch and then a foot starter switch on the floor or a push rod to the starter to activate and engage the bendix. Don't need actual wiring instructions, just wondering if the dash button with handle the set up I am envisioning.