clutch chatter problem Diaphram PP info

[Thomas Sargent]

I have a 1940 ford four door I recently purchased. The motor has been rebuilt and trans rebuilt with new clutch and (long style) PP. Builder states he installed a lighter 51 flywheel but would not answer if he had it resurfaced before install. I have worked through all of Van Pelt's list of possible issues, finding the radius rods unhooked, clutch external linkage worn out, Motor mounts loose. fixing all that and I still have chatter. Cannot discern any crank end play either. I am about to take the clutch apart, and would like to go to a diaphragm PP. Since I will be hiring this work done I would like to have parts in hand before we start disassembly. Can anyone provide diaphragm PP , throw out bearing and flywheel combo information that will work for me? Of course I could resurface existing flywheel Also is there a geometry problem for the linkage doing this?
Overall and specific advice will be greatly appreciated. Tom in Erie Pa

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Thomas Sargent

I have a 1940 ford four door I recently purchased. The motor has been rebuilt and trans rebuilt with new clutch and (long style) PP. Builder states he installed a lighter 51 flywheel but would not answer if he had it resurfaced before install. I have worked through all of Van Pelt's list of possible issues, finding the radius rods unhooked, clutch external linkage worn out, Motor mounts loose. fixing all that and I still have chatter. Cannot discern any crank end play either. I am about to take the clutch apart, and would like to go to a diaphragm PP. Since I will be hiring this work done I would like to have parts in hand before we start disassembly. Can anyone provide diaphragm PP , throw out bearing and flywheel combo information that will work for me? Of course I could resurface existing flywheel Also is there a geometry problem for the linkage doing this?
Overall and specific advice will be greatly appreciated. Tom in Erie Pa

Tom,

Like others, I am using Centerforce's diaphragm pressure plate and clutch. Their website stinks and, unfortunately, I did not write down the part numbers I used.

I suggest calling them. Their tech department is great and very helpful.

Edit: Tubman does bring up a good point. Sounds like the rebuilder missed a lot of things when redoing the car. Sounds like there could be more going on here.

[tubman]

What engine does your car have? An 8BA ('51 Ford) flywheel doesn't fit the earlier engines. We need more information, but at this time, rushing in and just changing the clutch to a different type probably doesn't guarantee anything. I have "long" clutches on my 8BA's and they are smooth as silk.

From what I have heard so far, I would have grave doubts about the knowledge and skill of the "builder". In particular, using a '51 Ford flywheel "because it's lighter" is pure BS.

[alchemy]

What do you mean the radius rods were unhooked? You mean the wishbones on the front or rear axles? Or are you calling the chatter rods by the wrong name? If they were not connected it would be a major reason for chatter. As well as a poorly surfaced flywheel.

[Thomas Sargent]

the radius rods I mention are the two that go from the frame into the block, left and right in the "bell housing part of the block. Hooking them up had no effect. As far as I know I have a 1940 v8 engine. It passes the pencil test.

[tubman]

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Then there's a problem here, since making an 8BA flywheel fit a '40 engine is a real problem because of ring gear location issues among other things. Something is not right here.

Strike two on your builder.

[Thomas Sargent]

Looks like I will have to wait still we get it apart and then start figuring what to do. I also had my BS meter pegging when I talked to the builder. stay tuned for update info in the coming months thanks
Tom

[Thomas Sargent]

I used to live in Minneapolis, where are you?

[tubman]

Me? I live in Pequot Lakes now (summer) and am leaving for the Keys next week.

[Thomas Sargent]

Update on this clutch project. upon disassembly found flywheel had 0.008 runout. Sourced a flywheel locally and had resurfaced. It had proper pattern for the centerforce PP. Balanced PP and flywheel after having it resurfaced, (new runout 0.003). Installed starter I had been using which had the newer type bendix. Pinion was always engaged.
Measured from starter mounting surface and found 1.5" to engine side of ring gear and
1 13/16" to far side of ring gear. Found old bendix from my old burnt up starter and it had 1 13/16" from mounting surface to face of pinion. Installed two washers on starter shaft between bendix and starter housing, which gave me clearance with the flywheel ring gear and pinion when relaxed.Will finish this post tomorrow.

[alchemy]

Quick clarifier: did the flywheel have the holes for the pressure plate drilled all the way through, or were they blind holes?

[Thomas Sargent]

IMG_8429.jpgthe holes are through. the new one is on the left and the old removed one on the right

[Thomas Sargent]

Now starter bendix is clear of ring gear when relaxed. Now when starting the starter is noisy but quiet when the engine starts. Pulled the starter and observed no sign of contact anywhere on bendix or on pan or the round can extension. Drilled observation hole in pan. I can see clearly that the pinion is behind the ring gear, Will do more troubleshooting when we get the engine running again. We are waiting on a EFI throttlebody from Autotrend in CA and have the carb off.

[alchemy]

You put an 8BA flywheel on your 59A era engine. No wonder you have alignment issues.

[Bullerman]

I have a 50 model and also have bad what I call clutch chatter problems. Bad enough I don't want to drive the car.
I bought it back in October. I had the pp clutch disk, throw out bearing and pilot bearing replaced. The flywheel was also supposed to be surfaced. I hope it was. After I got it back it is doing the same thing.
I am beginning to have doubts about the mechanic. I have a lot of up and down play in the throw out bearing arm. It has a spring that holds the arm in place.
I am thinking about buying the correct flywheel and a diaphragm style pressure plate and good throwout bearing in.
The motor mounts and transmission mounts are good. Got to get it lined out. Just had the king pins and master cylinder replaced. It's ready to go except for this clutch thing. Any recommendations appreciated.

[Thomas Sargent]

Van Pelt has a good section at the back of his parts catalogue that lists all the possible problems re clutch chatter. suggest you document your starter bendix and flywheel ring gear relationship so you can confirm any replacement flywheel will put the ring gear in the same place. See my comments above. If your throw-out brg is not just where it needs to be and centered you will sure have pp problems. Suggest you get that right, but you will have to take the engine out and trans to get to it of course.