The Ford Barn

RuralTowner · 07-20-2024, 02:06 AM

Sat for 40 years & recently got vehicle in near-to fully roadworthy condition. Was having an issue that while sitting & idling the temp would slowly rise, it would rocket to 180 after only a couple miles of 45mph. This with no T-stats or anything else to regulate flow. It didn't use coolant or leak. Could sit for weeks & still be full.

Filled block with vinegar & got it up to temp then let it sit for 3 days. Resulted in making an original brass//copper rad weep like it was at Henry Ford's funeral. Top back off with vinegar & idled for more temp until a tank blockage put a stop to that. Flushed & back-flushed block both directions on both sides with engine off & repeatedly flushed w/ hose stuck in the head while engine running. Did this until only had clean water coming out. Went & stuck an aftermarket aluminum in place for now. Now it runs REALLY cool down the road...too cool as it BARELY hits 140 when sustaining 50mph in 110+ ambient air & takes about 6 miles to reach even that. After a solid 14 mile one-way run (limit of the local road I can test on w/o hitting the highway) it will then hit 180-190 during idle rather quickly then plummet to 140 again after only a couple miles once at speed again. Cooling a bit TOO well...though not a great thing it's preferable than baking itself just sitting. Going to try the washer method as a flow regulator to see how that works. Have a couple thin copper plates w/ ~5/8in openings (can go bigger if needed) patterned from the outlet that will get sandwiched between gaskets.

Issue I've found now is that I'm losing coolant when all prior low-speed tests prior to the flush never lost a drop. After about 30mi worth, parked it, then next day checked & it took a gallon + to top back off. Just sitting & idling from cold I don't get any bubbles out the radiator, but after the vinegar flush it sound like the old head gasket may have opened up somewhere just enough to suck coolant? The engine used to use just straight water so it had plenty of rust that vinegar would've no doubt "cleaned" even at the water jacket seams. But no external leaks from anywhere.

chap52 · 07-20-2024, 06:46 AM

Is the oil milky?
The radiator will loose some coolant when you fill it to the top. They usually like the level to be just above the baffle plate that you see when you look down into the radiator.
I like T-stats with a small hole drilled in them even here in the hot Arizona Summers. Some folks say not needed, Henry said use them??? Choices!
50-50 mix of water and coolant will help a bit.
Hey, if it ain't boiling, drive it... Enjoy the adventure, Chap

tubman · 07-20-2024, 09:01 AM

First of all, put some properly functioning thermostats in it. You don't say where you are, but I would generally recommend 180 degree units in most cases. These engines, especially the later 8BA's, were designed to run thermostats. The Ford engineers redesigned the cooling system to work more efficiently in these engines, and the thermostats are an integral part of that design. This "no thermostats", "washer" BS had been debunked so many times it would make your head spin. The symptoms your are telling us about are the results of unregulated coolant flow. Thermostats regulate the flow in your engine and are a necessary integral part of the cooling system.

And this is not to mention sludge and crap you are introducing by running it at temperatures well below what it was designed for. 140 degrees is way too cold.

RuralTowner · 07-20-2024, 10:25 AM

Oil is still oil. Not making any & surprisingly doesn't seem to burn any. Doesn't drip a drop except for the trans drain plug. I'm in the desert SW of AZ where it's nothing to see 100teens & beyondsert ry summer day. Is a modified coupe that dad took body off & made it look military some decades ago. Motor still stock. I did add one of the bypass filters that mount to the small triangle pattern on drivers head. I'm aware no stats are not great idea & plan on adding them. It didn't have them when I started working on it & prior to the flush it had no problem idling up to temp. Now starting cold & just idle it can sit 30 min & needles won't budge.The plates would be strictly experimental since already had material. Those aren't in yet either just yet anyway. Would like to do one more good flush now that it's had some sustained runs to help break loose any remaining junk. As--is the known running cool means in a pinch IF a stat sticks can remove them (both) & still be ok for short term.

When I'd topped the rad back off I could see the cores. I used gal I had left of 50/50 then another half ish of distilled. Though that did top rad off. Did a 10mi round local trip & level covers cores that won't change when squeezing upper hoses. Like said before the flush it never used coolant even when it would reach full temp after a 4mi put around the desert block. But now does after flush it will. Just sitting idling when full level won't change

cas3 · 07-20-2024, 10:51 AM

Can we see some pics of dads "military" coupe?

RuralTowner · 07-20-2024, 11:50 AM

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RuralTowner · 07-20-2024, 12:29 PM

If can confirm it's just a rpm sensitive hg leak I'll pull heads to refresh gaskets. Had to replace outlet housings as one the nipple was half gone & other leaked at gasket surface after vinegar soak. Mating surfaces were pitted. Found couple very good condition used that matched engine patina. What I could see into the head had some scaling still. Do have a couple set of heads rescued from dump that looked in good shape & if cleaner will use them. The neighborhood the dump is near being upscale I figure they're from someone that went with aluminum or offy heads so got rid of the old cast

RuralTowner · 08-02-2024, 10:52 PM

Been stuck dealing with the HPOP on a 50yrs newer F250 6.0.

Taking a break from that by finally getting around to putting in a set of T-stats ordered at same time as a pair of wing-capped U-joints for this thing. Drilled a 5/32 hole in each (my 1/8 bit was broken). Had a heck of a time getting the stats to stay centered & not slip aside while trying to keep them sandwiched against the housings since they're not quite as large as the recess. Been eyeing a set of NOS labeled that are stated to work on the flathead but seller is away. Let it idle for almost 30min & driver's gauge read 190F while passenger read about 170. I'm not convinced the lower reading one is accurate & will replace it. I know the factory electronic gauge read from the passenger side & gave you an average. The prior set of gauges had their inner bezels coming apart from the sun//heat (this was before the flush//rad change) but would read ~180 ea (also prior to the cleanse couldn't put any serious load on or risk overheat).

Tomorrow will give it a test drive in the later afternoon after off work & less likely to bake from the heat wash that will come through the (soon to be covered) gap in the firewall where the heater box used to be in its prior incarnation (no pun). If coolant level successfully sits higher in the radiator tank & I get a running temp that's no longer merely air ambient then it's success I guess.

The plates will be kept in the parts kit as backups to be changed as the set if the need arose on the go. Better than nothing. They would still slow coolant flow compared to wide open & let the engine run warmer until safely get to where need to go. Thermostats are afterall a thermally operated variable geometry flow regulator.

07-20-2024, 02:06 AM	#1
RuralTowner Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 63	53 8BA - Vanishing coolant Sat for 40 years & recently got vehicle in near-to fully roadworthy condition. Was having an issue that while sitting & idling the temp would slowly rise, it would rocket to 180 after only a couple miles of 45mph. This with no T-stats or anything else to regulate flow. It didn't use coolant or leak. Could sit for weeks & still be full. Filled block with vinegar & got it up to temp then let it sit for 3 days. Resulted in making an original brass//copper rad weep like it was at Henry Ford's funeral. Top back off with vinegar & idled for more temp until a tank blockage put a stop to that. Flushed & back-flushed block both directions on both sides with engine off & repeatedly flushed w/ hose stuck in the head while engine running. Did this until only had clean water coming out. Went & stuck an aftermarket aluminum in place for now. Now it runs REALLY cool down the road...too cool as it BARELY hits 140 when sustaining 50mph in 110+ ambient air & takes about 6 miles to reach even that. After a solid 14 mile one-way run (limit of the local road I can test on w/o hitting the highway) it will then hit 180-190 during idle rather quickly then plummet to 140 again after only a couple miles once at speed again. Cooling a bit TOO well...though not a great thing it's preferable than baking itself just sitting. Going to try the washer method as a flow regulator to see how that works. Have a couple thin copper plates w/ ~5/8in openings (can go bigger if needed) patterned from the outlet that will get sandwiched between gaskets. Issue I've found now is that I'm losing coolant when all prior low-speed tests prior to the flush never lost a drop. After about 30mi worth, parked it, then next day checked & it took a gallon + to top back off. Just sitting & idling from cold I don't get any bubbles out the radiator, but after the vinegar flush it sound like the old head gasket may have opened up somewhere just enough to suck coolant? The engine used to use just straight water so it had plenty of rust that vinegar would've no doubt "cleaned" even at the water jacket seams. But no external leaks from anywhere.

07-20-2024, 06:46 AM	#2
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,829	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant Is the oil milky? The radiator will loose some coolant when you fill it to the top. They usually like the level to be just above the baffle plate that you see when you look down into the radiator. I like T-stats with a small hole drilled in them even here in the hot Arizona Summers. Some folks say not needed, Henry said use them??? Choices! 50-50 mix of water and coolant will help a bit. Hey, if it ain't boiling, drive it... Enjoy the adventure, Chap

07-20-2024, 09:01 AM	#3
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,630	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant First of all, put some properly functioning thermostats in it. You don't say where you are, but I would generally recommend 180 degree units in most cases. These engines, especially the later 8BA's, were designed to run thermostats. The Ford engineers redesigned the cooling system to work more efficiently in these engines, and the thermostats are an integral part of that design. This "no thermostats", "washer" BS had been debunked so many times it would make your head spin. The symptoms your are telling us about are the results of unregulated coolant flow. Thermostats regulate the flow in your engine and are a necessary integral part of the cooling system. And this is not to mention sludge and crap you are introducing by running it at temperatures well below what it was designed for. 140 degrees is way too cold.

07-20-2024, 10:25 AM	#4
RuralTowner Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 63	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant Oil is still oil. Not making any & surprisingly doesn't seem to burn any. Doesn't drip a drop except for the trans drain plug. I'm in the desert SW of AZ where it's nothing to see 100teens & beyondsert ry summer day. Is a modified coupe that dad took body off & made it look military some decades ago. Motor still stock. I did add one of the bypass filters that mount to the small triangle pattern on drivers head. I'm aware no stats are not great idea & plan on adding them. It didn't have them when I started working on it & prior to the flush it had no problem idling up to temp. Now starting cold & just idle it can sit 30 min & needles won't budge.The plates would be strictly experimental since already had material. Those aren't in yet either just yet anyway. Would like to do one more good flush now that it's had some sustained runs to help break loose any remaining junk. As--is the known running cool means in a pinch IF a stat sticks can remove them (both) & still be ok for short term. When I'd topped the rad back off I could see the cores. I used gal I had left of 50/50 then another half ish of distilled. Though that did top rad off. Did a 10mi round local trip & level covers cores that won't change when squeezing upper hoses. Like said before the flush it never used coolant even when it would reach full temp after a 4mi put around the desert block. But now does after flush it will. Just sitting idling when full level won't change Last edited by RuralTowner; 07-20-2024 at 10:58 AM.

07-20-2024, 10:51 AM	#5
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Beverly Kansas Posts: 5,297	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant Can we see some pics of dads "military" coupe?

07-20-2024, 12:29 PM	#7
RuralTowner Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 63	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant If can confirm it's just a rpm sensitive hg leak I'll pull heads to refresh gaskets. Had to replace outlet housings as one the nipple was half gone & other leaked at gasket surface after vinegar soak. Mating surfaces were pitted. Found couple very good condition used that matched engine patina. What I could see into the head had some scaling still. Do have a couple set of heads rescued from dump that looked in good shape & if cleaner will use them. The neighborhood the dump is near being upscale I figure they're from someone that went with aluminum or offy heads so got rid of the old cast

08-02-2024, 10:52 PM	#8
RuralTowner Member Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 63	Re: 53 8BA - Vanishing coolant Been stuck dealing with the HPOP on a 50yrs newer F250 6.0. Taking a break from that by finally getting around to putting in a set of T-stats ordered at same time as a pair of wing-capped U-joints for this thing. Drilled a 5/32 hole in each (my 1/8 bit was broken). Had a heck of a time getting the stats to stay centered & not slip aside while trying to keep them sandwiched against the housings since they're not quite as large as the recess. Been eyeing a set of NOS labeled that are stated to work on the flathead but seller is away. Let it idle for almost 30min & driver's gauge read 190F while passenger read about 170. I'm not convinced the lower reading one is accurate & will replace it. I know the factory electronic gauge read from the passenger side & gave you an average. The prior set of gauges had their inner bezels coming apart from the sun//heat (this was before the flush//rad change) but would read ~180 ea (also prior to the cleanse couldn't put any serious load on or risk overheat). Tomorrow will give it a test drive in the later afternoon after off work & less likely to bake from the heat wash that will come through the (soon to be covered) gap in the firewall where the heater box used to be in its prior incarnation (no pun). If coolant level successfully sits higher in the radiator tank & I get a running temp that's no longer merely air ambient then it's success I guess. The plates will be kept in the parts kit as backups to be changed as the set if the need arose on the go. Better than nothing. They would still slow coolant flow compared to wide open & let the engine run warmer until safely get to where need to go. Thermostats are afterall a thermally operated variable geometry flow regulator.