Ethanol 101

[Ray64]

I picked this up at the auto parts store. Good info!

[denis4x4]

I’ve had non ethanol delivered to the house for years. Use it in small engines, outboards and old cars. Also put it in my wife’s 2020 Pacifica. The Pacifica had to be towed to the dealer a couple of months ago with symptoms of a bad fuel pump. Pump and filter replaced under warranty. Work order said failure was caused by non-ethanol gas! Seems that late model fuel systems are designed specially for ethanol.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

I’ve had non ethanol delivered to the house for years. Use it in small engines, outboards and old cars. Also put it in my wife’s 2020 Pacifica. The Pacifica had to be towed to the dealer a couple of months ago with symptoms of a bad fuel pump. Pump and filter replaced under warranty. Work order said failure was caused by non-ethanol gas! Seems that late model fuel systems are designed specially for ethanol.

There is no way a dealer would have known it was real gas unless you told them. Sounds like a b.s. excuse the dealer came up with so as to blame anything but junk parts. They're all crooks.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

There is no way a dealer would have known it was real gas unless you told them. Sounds like a b.s. excuse the dealer came up with so as to blame anything but junk parts. They're all crooks.

I believe it, 100%.

Go talk to a real and active automotive engineer that works for Ford or GM and deals with engine systems, fuel, emissions, timing and so on. You'd be amazed at what they test and account for. And yes, there are actual myths and urban legends, some of the things the government said would never work, actually do.

Run your A on E85, and ethanol free fuel back to back, and you'll notice a seat of the pants difference. Go talk to the tuner guys that run E85 in their cars and make tons more power than on straight gas. Go play with alcohol / ethanol toys (sand cars, drag cars), and there are components designed to run on these fuels. Carb jets, injectors, pumps and other things are different for cars that are designed to run "flex" fuels, over cars that run straight gas.

I'm sure the dealer received their intel on pump failures tied to people running ethanol free fuel.

The diesel guys are going through the same thing with current emissions relating to sulfur content, DEF and other things.

It's completely believable.

[Banditorama]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I believe it, 100%.

Go talk to a real and active automotive engineer that works for Ford or GM and deals with engine systems, fuel, emissions, timing and so on. You'd be amazed at what they test and account for. And yes, there are actual myths and urban legends, some of the things the government said would never work, actually do.

Run your A on E85, and ethanol free fuel back to back, and you'll notice a seat of the pants difference. Go talk to the tuner guys that run E85 in their cars and make tons more power than on straight gas. Go play with alcohol / ethanol toys (sand cars, drag cars), and there are components designed to run on these fuels. Carb jets, injectors, pumps and other things are different for cars that are designed to run "flex" fuels, over cars that run straight gas.

I'm sure the dealer received their intel on pump failures tied to people running ethanol free fuel.

The diesel guys are going through the same thing with current emissions relating to sulfur content, DEF and other things.

It's completely believable.

The Chrysler Pacifica isn't a flex fuel vehicle. These cars are designed to run on fuels from a wide range of countries. A lot of EU countries are 5% ethanol, Japan's standard is 3% ethanol, and there's plenty of countries where E0 is still the standard.

Ethanol free fuel won't cause issues with automotive fuel system components designed to run on ethanol fuel. But ethanol fuel will cause problems on older automotive fuel system components that weren't designed to run ethanol.

The diesel fuel issue is related to modern diesel fuel's lower lubricity rating. Which is a completely separate issue from ethanol in gasoline

[Hitman]

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Originally Posted by Banditorama

The Chrysler Pacifica isn't a flex fuel vehicle. These cars are designed to run on fuels from a wide range of countries. A lot of EU countries are 5% ethanol, Japan's standard is 3% ethanol, and there's plenty of countries where E0 is still the standard.

Ethanol free fuel won't cause issues with automotive fuel system components designed to run on ethanol fuel. But ethanol fuel will cause problems on older automotive fuel system components that weren't designed to run ethanol.

The diesel fuel issue is related to modern diesel fuel's lower lubricity rating. Which is a completely separate issue from ethanol in gasoline

I thought it was implied that my comments were overly general regarding fuel issues in new vehicles, gas or diesel. Hence my use of "" around "flex" fuel; I wasn't calling the Pacifica a flex fuel vehicle. My high level comments were relative to gas and diesel fuels changing for emissions reasons (vapor, particulate, liquid), and how the change in the make up of fuels over the past couple of decades has drastically impacted the design of vehicles, to the point that using the old fuel formulations for a period of time will affect the performance and longevity of powertrain parts.

[BillCNC]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

There is no way a dealer would have known it was real gas unless you told them. Sounds like a b.s. excuse the dealer came up with so as to blame anything but junk parts. They're all crooks.

They could have sampled the fuel in the tank, add a little water and then shake it for a few seconds and 10 minutes later, there is your alcohol, or lack of.

Regards
Bill

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

They could have sampled the fuel in the tank, add a little water and then shake it for a few seconds and 10 minutes later, there is your alcohol, or lack of.

Regards
Bill

Yep, 10oz of e-10 + 1oz of water = 9oz of gas? + 2oz of shmeg.

[Badpuppy]

Info seems accurate but biased. Buy their product, see if it helps. Caveat emptor.

[stevests]

This is off a Model T but illustrates the effects of "pump" gas - I removed this from the tank, set on the bench and within minutes it had this white residue appear - simple swipe with my finger removed the substance.

[alexiskai]

The small displacement turbocharged engines in many modern cars do very well with E15 aka 88 octane. My Accord gets 38 mpg average.

[jg61hawk]

For winter storage phase separation prevention is very important. Ethanol fuel is high in alcohol. Alcohol absorbs water (used as water remover back in the day). Problem is the alcohol content in Ethanol fuel is so high it absorbs water right from the air, until it reaches its own saturation point. It then can't hold hold another drop and although it tries, it drops all the water it has absorbed. Now you have water at the bottom of your tank. Use this product and keep tank filled to the top to minimize the amount of air in the tank. Just think 10 gallon tank, you have basically one gallon of the old style dry gas product. Back in the day you would have been drumed out of the mechanic's class!

[GPierce]

Modern cars don’t suffer from this problem because the fuel tank is sealed.
Model A’s, lawn mowers and airplanes tanks etc, are vented all the time. Cold night fuel contracts and pulls in air. Warmed during the day it expands and the next night it pulls in air as the fuel contracts again.

[Sunny the Model A]

I run my A on anything I can find, so long as it's cheap. 18.3mpg stop and go traffic and 20mpg at steady 45 mph. I add a bit of mmo or some used motor oil to the mix and it keeps separation at a minimum. 3-5oz of filtered used oil per tank or 1 oz per gallon of mmo. runs like a champion, no complaints. I ran my truck on 100% ethanol and it ran smooth as silk, it loved it so long as it is fresh, if you drive your car a lot, no need to worry about water getting in the tank.

[Hitman]

This product doesn’t look much different than Sta-Bil or the other fuel stabilizers that have existed for awhile. This only addresses the storage issues when the fuel when it sits for periods of time.

I’m still looking for the solution to driving cars with ethanol fuels, particularly in the summer. Vapor lock and other issues take the fun out of things. Ethanol free fuel isn’t available everywhere, but I use it when I can.

[Sunny the Model A]

Marvel seems to help prevent vapor lock during summer, here in charleston sc if you sit in traffic with ethanol fuel it can like to sputter a bit, I add a bit of marvel and it goes away. Used motor oil does the same thing.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Sunny the Model A

Marvel seems to help prevent vapor lock during summer, here in charleston sc if you sit in traffic with ethanol fuel it can like to sputter a bit, I add a bit of marvel and it goes away. Used motor oil does the same thing.

I’ve tried Marvel and it doesn’t prevent vapor lock. I’ve tried other things too, and it’s really the carb temp which boils off various parts of the fuel creating the lock.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I’ve tried Marvel and it doesn’t prevent vapor lock. I’ve tried other things too, and it’s really the carb temp which boils off various parts of the fuel creating the lock.

I use a phenolic spacer between my Marvel and intake manifold. It seems to help with vapor lock.

I use Seafoam to address the other issues.

[Dave in MN]

Our local Club (Twin Cities Model A Ford Club) invited a fuel expert to one of our winter clinics to speak about fuel and oil for our cars. For winter storage of our cars and small engine equipment, he suggested filling the gas tank fully and then placing a plastic bag or similar plastic over the threaded filler pipe and screwing the cap over the plastic tightly. This process creates a sealed tank with very little air in the system. I have tried it and the fuel stays fresh over winter. Good Day!

PS: In our northern area…Please check your coolant to see if it is properly mixed with antifreeze or fully drain the system. You are on borrowed time already.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

Our local Club (Twin Cities Model A Ford Club) invited a fuel expert to one of our winter clinics to speak about fuel and oil for our cars. For winter storage of our cars and small engine equipment, he suggested filling the gas tank fully and then placing a plastic bag or similar plastic over the threaded filler pipe and screwing the cap over the plastic tightly. This process creates a sealed tank with very little air in the system. I have tried it and the fuel stays fresh over winter. Good Day!

PS: In our northern area…Please check your coolant to see if it is properly mixed with antifreeze or fully drain the system. You are on borrowed time already.

Nice tip. Too bad I can't use that on my cars with a vented talk.