stuck motor

[fordrelic]

Hey, Maybe someone has some good suggestions with my issue.
I purchased a Model A from an estate and the former owner started restoring.
The motor has been completely rebuilt as rumor has it. It was rebuilt maybe 15 years ago and has never been started. I don't believe they ever put oil in crankcase. (need dipstick) The motor will not turn with hand crank. What suggestions do you have. It is bolted in chassis with body. It has been in unheated garage. It seems they got motor done and bolted it in chassis but never got back to finish up, not even a oil cap. Motor and trans bolted in and that's it.

Thanks for your help.

[Jacksonlll]

No trans, or rear end? Will not roll??

[captndan]

Mix up 50/50 acetone and MMO. About an ounce in each cylinder and let it set a few days. In the meantime buy a dipstick, filler cap, and oil. Give it time.

[Patrick L.]

Thats quite awhile for an open engine to sit without being pickled. I think I'd pour some ATF in each cylinder and let it sit for a week before trying to nudge the engine with the crank.

[Mitch//pa]

Is the starter in it ?? If so Make sure the bendix is not stuck in the flywheel or the starter bolts could be to long...
just throwing something easy out in the mix

[Aok]

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Below is some information I got many years ago when I was trying to get a 49 Dodge truck started so all may not apply to model A but there is some interesting ideas mixed in there.
"Don't go out
and start cranking on your breaker bar hoping to force the thing.
Pull the plugs and pour whatever your favorite elixer of lubrication
is in each cylinder. And dont be stingy. Pour ALOT of fuel oil,WD-
40,Gibbs oil,Kroil,Engine oil,kerosene,Marvel Mystery Oil,Sea
Foam,ATF,or what-have-you. At the least,let it sit a few days. A
month wouldn't be overdoing it,but should be plenty. When you come
back,re-pour some more lubricant. There are 2 places you can
find "purchase" to turn your motor over. (By the way, there
shouldn't be spark plugs in it.) The front of the crankshaft,and the
rear of the crankshaft(or flywheel). In both cases you'll need
leverage. LOTS of it! No 2 foot,half inch breaker bar here. First
off,you need to make sure the engine is SECURE. Tie it down,chain
it,strap it to a post,or whatever you have to do to keep it from
moving around when you're "reefing" on it. If you have a large bolt
in the center of your crankshaft use a six point hardened impact
socket,and preferably a 3/4 drive breaker bar. Attach to the end of
that a length of pipe for leverage so yo don't have to leave a
couple of round pink things on the ground when you're
pulling/pushing on it. Give that a try. If you don't have a big bolt
on the end of the crank, go to the hardware store and buy some grade
8 bolts 4 or 5 inches long that will thread into your flywheel
damper bolt holes;or you're clutch mounting holes on the flywheel.
(Or BOTH if you have an assistant) Thread long bar or length of pipe
through and lever on those(keeping the lever device close to where
the are threaded in so as not to bend or snap off the grade 8 bolts.
If that doesn't work and you have a seriously stuck engine you can
get an old spark plug , break the insulator out ,weld the hole
closed ,drill it through and tap it or weld in a "zirk" fitting.
Find out which cylinders have the valves closed. screw in the
converted spark plug and start pumping in grease untill the cylinder
is full. Then keep pumping in grease. This will yield hundreds of
pounds of evenly distributed hydraulic pressure to free up
that "stubborn" engine. Don't forget that before you start all this
heavy duty levering and such you should be sure that a mechanical
failure such as a broken connecting rod isn't responsible for the
engine being stuck in the first place. If you're not sure pull the
oil pan off and have a look. These techniques should get "most"
engines unstuck. Good luck,and "safety first" in these endeavors. "

[aermotor]

Check that the beveled teeth on the ring gear are on the back side. Learned the hard way - not from an armchair.

John

[fordrelic]

Originally Posted by Aok

Below is some information I got many years ago when I was trying to get a 49 Dodge truck started so all may not apply to model A but there is some interesting ideas mixed in there.
"Don't go out
and start cranking on your breaker bar hoping to force the thing.
Pull the plugs and pour whatever your favorite elixer of lubrication
is in each cylinder. And dont be stingy. Pour ALOT of fuel oil,WD-
40,Gibbs oil,Kroil,Engine oil,kerosene,Marvel Mystery Oil,Sea
Foam,ATF,or what-have-you. At the least,let it sit a few days. A
month wouldn't be overdoing it,but should be plenty. When you come
back,re-pour some more lubricant. There are 2 places you can
find "purchase" to turn your motor over. (By the way, there
shouldn't be spark plugs in it.) The front of the crankshaft,and the
rear of the crankshaft(or flywheel). In both cases you'll need
leverage. LOTS of it! No 2 foot,half inch breaker bar here. First
off,you need to make sure the engine is SECURE. Tie it down,chain
it,strap it to a post,or whatever you have to do to keep it from
moving around when you're "reefing" on it. If you have a large bolt
in the center of your crankshaft use a six point hardened impact
socket,and preferably a 3/4 drive breaker bar. Attach to the end of
that a length of pipe for leverage so yo don't have to leave a
couple of round pink things on the ground when you're
pulling/pushing on it. Give that a try. If you don't have a big bolt
on the end of the crank, go to the hardware store and buy some grade
8 bolts 4 or 5 inches long that will thread into your flywheel
damper bolt holes;or you're clutch mounting holes on the flywheel.
(Or BOTH if you have an assistant) Thread long bar or length of pipe
through and lever on those(keeping the lever device close to where
the are threaded in so as not to bend or snap off the grade 8 bolts.
If that doesn't work and you have a seriously stuck engine you can
get an old spark plug , break the insulator out ,weld the hole
closed ,drill it through and tap it or weld in a "zirk" fitting.
Find out which cylinders have the valves closed. screw in the
converted spark plug and start pumping in grease untill the cylinder
is full. Then keep pumping in grease. This will yield hundreds of
pounds of evenly distributed hydraulic pressure to free up
that "stubborn" engine. Don't forget that before you start all this
heavy duty levering and such you should be sure that a mechanical
failure such as a broken connecting rod isn't responsible for the
engine being stuck in the first place. If you're not sure pull the
oil pan off and have a look. These techniques should get "most"
engines unstuck. Good luck,and "safety first" in these endeavors. "

Wow, do you think this might help me on a couple other projects?
I bought a 65 Galaxie 500 that was in a flood in 2008. Car only has 65k miles on it. After the flood from broken levy, and because health issues owner couldn't get back to caring for his car collection. When I first looked at car I pulled dip stick and it was full of water. After pulling plugs, two cylinders had water. I filled those two cylinders with ATF. I drained oil pan and filled with diesel fuel to rinse pan and filled again to soak. What are the chances I would break bolt on crank pulley? Would the grease do the job through a plug hole?
I also have a 61 Falcon that was parked in 1985 in a garage and the motor is also stuck. I pulled plugs and have it soaking with ATF.
I would like to get these two moving again.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by fordrelic

Wow, do you think this might help me on a couple other projects?
I bought a 65 Galaxie 500 that was in a flood in 2008. Car only has 65k miles on it. After the flood from broken levy, and because health issues owner couldn't get back to caring for his car collection. When I first looked at car I pulled dip stick and it was full of water. After pulling plugs, two cylinders had water. I filled those two cylinders with ATF. I drained oil pan and filled with diesel fuel to rinse pan and filled again to soak. What are the chances I would break bolt on crank pulley? Would the grease do the job through a plug hole?
I also have a 61 Falcon that was parked in 1985 in a garage and the motor is also stuck. I pulled plugs and have it soaking with ATF.
I would like to get these two moving again.

Any car that's been submerged needs to be drained and serviced I'd say within two weeks, or you can expect a complete teardown. I've worked on a few flood victims, but I did all the draining and flushing within two weeks, and got them back on the road for the customers. In 1977 my snowmobile sank in a cattle pond that I wasn't aware of, and I got that out and serviced within a day. It also survived the total submerge.

[Terry, NJ]

I rebuilt an engine that had bad mains. I had new mains poured (not rods) and that crank was so tight, you couldn't move it by hand. It could be moved with a long wrench on the flywheel, and the starter. Certainly the engine needs some lubrication, but if each cylinder is full or even half full of a liquid then you get hydro lock when that cylinder is on compression. Go lightly with pouring large quantities of anything into it.
Model A s excel at locking the valves up through sitting too long. with the valve cover and the manifolds off, make sure lots of Kroil, WD40, 50/50 acetone/ATF, MMO gets on the valve stems.
One last note. Machined surfaces always rust if not covered in grease, oil, Cosmoline, etc and this rust scrapes off as a fine 'grinding" compound. Cams, cylinder walls, valve stems, etc are all probably have some fine surface rust that will rub off. So whatever oil you're going to use, be prepared to dump it after twenty minutes running. I use the cheapest junk oil I can find on sale.
Terry

[Pinesdune]

Do you have access to a borescope, you could look at the cylinder walls and see if the cylinders got rusted up at all before you start fighting/turning it


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[Y-Blockhead]

I was recently given an engine that has been patiently waiting for 40 years in a club members garage. This was a "spare" that came with his car. But it never happened, he never needed to change engines. True story.

Anyway it was stuck. Poured 50/50 acetone/ATF in the cylinders. Pulled the valve cover and sprays the acetone/ATF on the valve stems. Also squirted straight 20/50 to the mains.

And waited. check once in a while. After ~1 week I could see the oil was getting a pink tinge to it from the ATF so I knew it was "penetrating".

It is now free and I have the head off and it looks "pretty good" inside, so far. Looks like it was run but not very long. I guess I was lucky it was "put away" before ethanol.

Moral of the story, Be Patient.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Pulled the valve cover and sprays the acetone/ATF on the cylinders

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

HAHA, Just checking to make sure your paying attention... . I actually meant to say valve stems and lifters. I also sprayed the valve stems thru the intake and exhaust ports. Even after I got the engine to turn I could hear some of the valves snapping shut.

Forgot pictures in my other post.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

HAHA, Just checking to make sure your paying attention... . I actually meant to say valve stems and lifters. I also sprayed the valve stems thru the intake and exhaust ports. Even after I got the engine to turn I could hear some of the valves snapping shut.

Thanks. I probably should have been able to figure that out. Real tough to get to the cylinders from the valve chamber

[fordrelic]

lots of good ideas. Thanks and more ideas welcome. I will pull plugs and get something working. Also fill crankcase. With a little labor I could try to pull car and pop clutch. Would this be a bad idea after letting it soak?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by fordrelic

lots of good ideas. Thanks and more ideas welcome. I will pull plugs and get something working. Also fill crankcase. With a little labor I could try to pull car and pop clutch. Would this be a bad idea after letting it soak?

That's a good way to bend connecting rods or break something. Let it soak and at the most try prying on the flywheel teeth while using good judgment.

[Terry, NJ]

No, I don't think so. As long as you know when to stop. Pull it forward in third gear ( 1 to 1 ratio) Before you go to that trouble, try putting it into gear (3rd) and rocking it with the rear wheels and see if that doesn't free it up.
Terry

Originally Posted by fordrelic

lots of good ideas. Thanks and more ideas welcome. I will pull plugs and get something working. Also fill crankcase. With a little labor I could try to pull car and pop clutch. Would this be a bad idea after letting it soak?

[SSsssteamer]

Originally Posted by fordrelic

...... With a little labor I could try to pull car and pop clutch. Would this be a bad idea after letting it soak?

This was a little different experience I had from towing:
One afternoon, in 1963, I was managing a Gull gas station and a guy came in and asked me for a tow of his '40 Ford coupe. Earlier that day, on his way to work, he had over heated the flat head V8 motor, and he had left the car along side the road to cool. Now, in the afternoon, the starter would not crank the motor over. I did just what he asked me to do. We got it rolling by towing and he popped the clutch. It skidded the tires a couple of times, and then finally the motor was turning over. The motor was running on about half the cylinders and lot of water was coming out of the exhaust. We checked the oil and the oil level was high with water in it too. What had happened was that he had blown a head gasket earlier and while the car was sitting all day, a couple of cylinders had filled with water. When we towed it, the sudden impact of the water in the cylinders blew a couple of tops of the pistons down into the crank case. What could have been an easy head gasket fix, turned into a motor replacement. I traded him out of the '40 Ford coupe. I wish that I still had it.

[Art Newland]

Any chance that since the engine was rebuilt that it's just too tight to turn with the hand crank?