Question about using Brumfield head

[mcgarrett]

Yesterday I was fortunate to purchase a new Brumfield head from a private collection of Model A parts being liquidated near me. Apparently it was purchased new in 1995 according to a letter found in the box with the head from Brumfield-Finley in Waco, Texas. I see no trace of scoring on the head stud bosses or any other evidence that it has ever been installed. The letters B-F are the only identification marks cast into the head. It looks like the man that bought it was in the process of smoothing up some of the casting roughness in the combustion chamber and never finished. I plan to finish smoothing out the roughness of the last combustion chamber dome.

Questions:

-With a "B" grind cam and this head with a Model B carburetor and stock A ignition what kind of power increase would be expected from the stock 40 HP?

-What head gasket would be best when using this head? Any guesses about what the compression ratio is? I don't have any idea what the compression ratio is until I contact Brumfield.

-Who else is using a Brumfield head and what is your opinion of its performance characteristics?

[Marshall V. Daut]

I have owned standard Brumfield heads and even a Super Brumfield head since the middle 1990's and LOVE them all! You will be very pleased with the performance boost, especially improving the dead spot going from 2nd gear into 3rd. There's enough extra umph that the head will give you to smooth out that awkward place in the engine's power curve. VRROOOOOMMM!!!.
Marshall

[Bruce of MN]

[QUOTE=Marshall V. Daut;2283532] the performance boost, especially improving the dead spot going from 2nd gear into 3rd. There's enough extra umph that the head will give you to smooth out that awkward place in the engine's power curve. /QUOTE]

There's a small rise in a road that I use that is located after a stop just right to require a stock A to stay in 2nd. With my 6:1 Snyder head, I can go to 3rd, retard it a little and it pulls to the top easily. It is a small thing, but very satisfying.

[alexiskai]

Here are head installation instructions from the late Larry Brumfield.

https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bru...structions.htm

[mcgarrett]

Marshall,
Appreciate the words of encouragement. I was hoping to get that kind of response. I don't know very much about Brumfield heads, but was pretty sure I made a good decision to buy it.

alexiskai
Many thanks for this link. It's exactly the information I needed. I would have surely messed things up terribly without it. I will follow his instructions to the letter!

[alexiskai]

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Originally Posted by mcgarrett

I will follow his instructions to the letter!

If you end up also following his instructions on testing the strength of the threads in the block, it may be helpful to review a video of this procedure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibaPf0FQnZM

I made this video in collaboration with Larry before he died.

[Pete]

Too bad he didn't live to bring out the new design.

[updraught]

Looks similar to the Snyder's 6:1.
A victim of covid?

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by updraught

Looks similar to the Snyder's 6:1.
A victim of covid?

It was never noted in his obituary.He was against shots. I have two of his heads good for a little more pickup especially hills. RIP Larry this month he passed away.

[Chris in WNC]

OFF-TOPIC, sort of.....

Originally Posted by Gary WA

It was never noted in his obituary.

Where & when was the obit published?
Searched for it in Waco TX with no results.

I liked him and his HC heads, but he always had very strong opinions.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Yesterday I was fortunate to purchase a new Brumfield head from a private collection of Model A parts being liquidated near me. Apparently it was purchased new in 1995 according to a letter found in the box with the head from Brumfield-Finley in Waco, Texas. I see no trace of scoring on the head stud bosses or any other evidence that it has ever been installed. The letters B-F are the only identification marks cast into the head. It looks like the man that bought it was in the process of smoothing up some of the casting roughness in the combustion chamber and never finished. I plan to finish smoothing out the roughness of the last combustion chamber dome.

Questions:

-With a "B" grind cam and this head with a Model B carburetor and stock A ignition what kind of power increase would be expected from the stock 40 HP?

-What head gasket would be best when using this head? Any guesses about what the compression ratio is? I don't have any idea what the compression ratio is until I contact Brumfield.

-Who else is using a Brumfield head and what is your opinion of its performance characteristics?

Adding a couple of other things to your questions...

Using a Model-B carburetor on your engine can add some power 'if' either a modified Model-B intake manifold is used, -or is a stock Model-A manifold is bored oversize. The stock Model-A intake up-tube is 1.000" ID whereas the Model-B intake is 1.250 ID. Using a MOdel-B carb on a stock A manifold restricts the flow. I actually bore Model-A intakes to 1.300 and blend the ends.

Purely a speculation however since the 'B' engine (-with its' slightly less compression than your BF and all of the other 'B' components) was rated at around 50hp, I would say your expectations should be around 50hp - 55hp. Where you will see the greatest improvement with your combination will be with a Stipe or Burtz camshaft, followed by larger intake valves and opening the bowl areas.

The biggest downfall I have ever experienced with a BF head was they all seemed to need to go thru about a half-dozen heat cycles, and then be resurfaced. From then on, they would always be within 0.001 - 0.002 when you pulled them off on a rebuild.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Adding a couple of other things to your questions...

Using a Model-B carburetor on your engine can add some power 'if' either a modified Model-B intake manifold is used, the Model-B intake is 1.250 ID. Using a MOdel-B carb on a stock A manifold restricts the flow.

Purely a speculation however since the 'B' engine (-with its' slightly less compression than your BF and all of the other 'B' components) was rated at around 50hp.

What modification does a B manifold need when used with a B carb to produce the power benefit of the B carb/manifold combo? Seems like any modification would increase the flow and power produced beyond the factory advertised 50hp.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Hitman

What modification does a B manifold need when used with a B carb to produce the power benefit of the B carb/manifold combo? Seems like any modification would increase the flow and power produced beyond the factory advertised 50hp.

Well, the 'B' manifold does not need any modification when used with a 'B' carburetor on a 1932-34 4 cylinder engine however the issue when using the Model-B intake on a Model-A is the carburetor is aligned differently which prohibits the Model-A Choke Rod from connecting to the GAV. Additionally, the Model-A style of fuel line enters the Model-B carburetor in a different location requiring either a new line to be fabricated or an original line being modified. Therefore, to use a Model-B intake requires the carburetor mounting flange to be modified by either cutting the flange and rotating, -or elongating the carburetor mounting holes (risky).

FWIW, since the external shape of the Model-B intake manifold is different too (-making it noticeably obvious), I prefer to modify the stock Model-A manifold by boring the inside about 5% larger than a Model-B, -which is about 30% larger than a stock Model-A intake manifold.

[mcgarrett]

Brent,
I forgot about the choke rod alignment issue with the B carburetor. I had a similar alignment issue with the choke rod on my Model T Speedster where the rod angle to the carb was different, but I used a flexible brake hone shaft and modified it to fit the choke rod and seemed to work perfectly. I might give that a try here and see if I have the same success.

Regarding stud hole threads, 3 of them need to be drilled and Heli-Coils installed. I want to be sure I drill and tap the holes spot-on. Do you recommend having a machine shop do this or take it on myself? I'm fairly competent using a tap, but I don't want to screw this up. I thought about fabricating a fixture to make sure I drill the initial hole perfectly vertical and square to the block. Thanks for your recommendations.

[katy]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Regarding stud hole threads, 3 of them need to be drilled and Heli-Coils installed. I want to be sure I drill and tap the holes spot-on. Do you recommend having a machine shop do this or take it on myself? I'm fairly competent using a tap, but I don't want to screw this up. I thought about fabricating a fixture to make sure I drill the initial hole perfectly vertical and square to the block. Thanks for your recommendations.

If you're talking about the head studs, use a cylinder head for a guide, clamp it down with 2, 3 or more studs, bolts or whatever.

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Well, the 'B' manifold does not need any modification when used with a 'B' carburetor on a 1932-34 4 cylinder engine however the issue when using the Model-B intake on a Model-A is the carburetor is aligned differently which prohibits the Model-A Choke Rod from connecting to the GAV. Additionally, the Model-A style of fuel line enters the Model-B carburetor in a different location requiring either a new line to be fabricated or an original line being modified. Therefore, to use a Model-B intake requires the carburetor mounting flange to be modified by either cutting the flange and rotating, -or elongating the carburetor mounting holes (risky).

FWIW, since the external shape of the Model-B intake manifold is different too (-making it noticeably obvious), I prefer to modify the stock Model-A manifold by boring the inside about 5% larger than a Model-B, -which is about 30% larger than a stock Model-A intake manifold.

I run a B carb and intake on one of mine without any modification to the carb or manifold. I just turn the carb mounting bolts down a bit to correct the alignment issue. This avoids having to modify the manifold and risk damaging the bolt flange.

Making a new fuel line isn't difficult.

[mcgarrett]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I run a B carb and intake on one of mine without any modification to the carb or manifold. I just turn the carb mounting bolts down a bit to correct the alignmuent issue. This avoids having to modify the manifold and risk damaging the bolt flange.

Making a new fuel line isn't difficult.

Hitman,
Can you please clarify what you mean by "turn down the mounting bolts down a bit" ?

[kenparker0703]

I, too, have been running B-F heads since the mid 90's. Currently running two of them.
Brent is right about the heat cycles and resurfacing. Be sure and check for straightness before you install.


Most of the B-F heads are 5.9 compression ratio. There are a few 6.1. And some of the 5.9's have been resurfaced enought to give 6.0 or better.


Mr Brumfeld always recommended the FelPro 7013. I have had better luck with the Best 509. Less likely to create a gasket leak between number 3 and 4 cylinder.

[mcgarrett]

Ken & Brent,
Your specific technical input is MUCH appreciated. I'm surprised to learn about the protracted thermal cycle "break-in" period of this head, and a little disappointed about the prospects of having to remove it AFTER all the re-torqueing to have it re-surfaced, but I'll move forward with it as you guys have advised and see how it responds. The block I'm using was a fresh re-build done a few years ago (not by me) and was found in a man's garage after his death. The deck surface looks to have had a clean-up pass with a mill, so I'll check for flatness before proceeding. Also appreciate the tip on using the BEST 509 head gasket. The information on Vince Falter's website about Brumfield heads stressed using the FelPro 7013 copper gasket, so I didn't know about that option. I've sure learned a lot about the installation nuances of this head - things I thought I already knew, so I'm glad I asked!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

Ken & Brent,
Your specific technical input is MUCH appreciated. I'm surprised to learn about the protracted thermal cycle "break-in" period of this head, and a little disappointed about the prospects of having to remove it AFTER all the re-torqueing to have it re-surfaced, but I'll move forward with it as you guys have advised and see how it responds. The block I'm using was a fresh re-build done a few years ago (not by me) and was found in a man's garage after his death. The deck surface looks to have had a clean-up pass with a mill, so I'll check for flatness before proceeding. Also appreciate the tip on using the BEST 509 head gasket. The information on Vince Falter's website about Brumfield heads stressed using the FelPro 7013 copper gasket, so I didn't know about that option. I've sure learned a lot about the installation nuances of this head - things I thought I already knew, so I'm glad I asked!

To be brutally honest, ...it is my opinion that Larry had his way of doing things that might not have always been the best way, -however it was the right way because it was just his way.

And with the above said, credit is due Larry because he started the trend of manufacturing modern-day reproduction cylinder heads. Yes, they were definitely better than anything we had available to us during the 70s and 80s however I honestly do not look at them as being the best of what is available today. Heads like Dan Iandolo's and Don Snyder's that came afterwards and had dyno R&D allowed the combustion chambers and slight spark plug hole location changes/tweaking done likely makes those heads equal to, -or possibly a minute bit better than the F-F. Early on, Bill Stipe used his dyno to flog the Snyder head, ...and to my knowledge, Larry never really flogged the B-F head.

As for re-surfacing, just wait until it starts leaking and then change the gasket while resurfacing it then.