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11-13-2023, 08:08 PM | #1 |
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Wheel spacers
In mounting the rear hubs and drums on my coupe, it appears that the reach from the hub flange and the depth of this mating surface on the drum are basically the same at 1.375". Resulting in the drum locking up when the rim is mounted and tightened on it's studs. There have been new axles installed in the process of rebuilding the differential. Also the backing plate mounting flange has been turned down as Brent Terry had recommend, which I thought was an excellent idea as it would move the brake shoes away from the drum, my thought being no need for shimming the taper on the axle. The leading edge of the brake shoes have been chamfered as recommended, the only thing different here is that the shims on the axle taper have not been used.
Speedway sells a spacer (which I have used) to shim the rim away from the drum face providing the necessary clearance allowing the rim to be tightened up bearing on the face of the drum as intended. These spacers also have a flange on the hub which is installed facing out to provide a shoulder to bear against the rim to carry the load of the car, instead of hanging the weight on the wheel studs. They measure about .110" which I am thinking to install on the hub flange to space the drum away by this amount from the brake shoes. I could machine this hub off to make it just a flat .110" spacer and provide the clearance needed, but I would rather just buy a flat spacer of this thickness if possible, or I could make a couple of them if I had too. I do not want to use the shims on the axle taper, this being a critical mounting surface it should be mated to its taper without need to shim it out. Is anyone aware of this type of spacer being marketed for such a purpose? |
11-13-2023, 08:29 PM | #2 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
This is what I had in mind, but the hole center is incorrect. My hubs are on a 5.5" hole center line.
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11-14-2023, 07:21 AM | #3 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
This is a confusing post because the wheels should not effect how the drums sit and how close, or how much interference there is with the backing plate.
Stock wheels? The Model A wheels were designed to fit to 3 places, the hub, at the studs, and at the drum. The Service Bulletins shows where they sit on the hubs and drums, page 108 of the book. The early hubs and wheels were different and the different styles cannot be intermixed. This may be where the problem is coming from. New axles are a good idea, but the taper in old hubs are usually worn which will cause an interference problem. I would advise trying the sheet metal shims that wrap around the tapered part of the axle. A spacer will defeat the way the Model A wheels are designed to fit to the hub and drum. Again, see the Service Bulletins.
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A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 11-14-2023 at 07:31 AM. |
11-14-2023, 05:30 PM | #4 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
Speedway Motors | #91065400 12 x 2 Brake Drum for Bendix Style 1937-48 Ford Brakes The Hubs came with the car, which appear to be early ford 5 on a 5.5" center line, that were originally swedged to the drums....I will get to that also. |
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11-14-2023, 05:41 PM | #5 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
The hubs have been converted to a conventional arrangement where removing the wheel lugs and wheel the drum can be slid off of the hub provided the shoes are backed off to allow this. Detailed description is given in my previous post: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331513
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11-14-2023, 05:47 PM | #6 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
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11-14-2023, 06:07 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
The HAMB had a good write up on adjusting the brakes (attached) perhaps more could be gotten there..... |
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11-16-2023, 02:07 AM | #8 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
There have been many negative comments made in past threads on the V8 Forum concerning these drums - link to a recent one: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...05&postcount=5 - |
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11-16-2023, 10:43 AM | #9 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
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11-18-2023, 09:18 AM | #10 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
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11-19-2023, 10:20 AM | #11 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
So the drums from Speedway were .005" out of round (not terrible), and showed .010" run out (bell mouthed). I did turn this drum to .002" out of round, and .001" run out, took .010" out of diameter to do this. The drum still had tight and loose spots, which prompted me to check the concentrically of the hub to the axle center line. Here the problem was found. One side was .014", and the other was .022" out of round. So how could this be?
Recall that I did machine the axle housings for bearing race repair sleeves. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332246 As indicated in my post the housing was centered on the existing bearing race to .0015" to the tool post on the lathe. This was done as the only reliable means to index the part for this machining process. It does not verify it's concentrically with the axle center line, as the hub is still yet another variable in this equation. It is also that the repair sleeves were not perfectly concentric, and also could have been affected by pressing them into place. I may be splitting hairs here, but what I did was locate the high points of both members (drum and hub), and installed them to cancel one another's offsets. I think that if these checks were made on other machines, the same conclusions would be apparent....Maybe not, but tell me, why is it considered to be normal procedure to sand shoes to fit their drums? This suggest to me this very type of situation as I describe to be the case commonly. Everything is manufactured to acceptable tolerances, they can become cumulative to cause an overall out of specification condition to exist. |
11-14-2023, 08:41 AM | #12 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Brake shoes "centered?" Have they been ground to fit the curve of the brake drum?
Are the new drums on new hubs? Old hubs tend to be "stretched" where they have repeatedly been driven over the axle taper. New axles SHOULD be the best way to go - but there have been reports that the new differential gear are welded to the new axle shaft - and these have had reported failures. (Original axles are one piece.) Agreed on the taper shims but it may depend on how you report on my query above. Joe K
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11-14-2023, 05:58 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
The shoes were installed (have pictures but not yet downloaded to this drive) on the anchor pins mated with the wheel cylinder and then the top return spring was installed. The top adjusters were turned in and the drums installed. The rest has been covered here I think.....So how would I be centering the shoes? The old Motors manuals that I have from the forties are not outlaying this procedure.... |
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11-14-2023, 06:57 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
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11-14-2023, 10:06 AM | #15 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Are you using drums other than Model A. I see in another thread you are asking about later model brakes, 1939-41?
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11-14-2023, 11:25 AM | #16 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
I must be missing something here.The drum is swaged onto the hub,there is no reason for it to get any tighter by tightening the lug nuts.Are the drums swaged on? Is all this Model A or other year stuff?
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11-14-2023, 06:10 PM | #17 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Could not upload the rich text format which I had saved originally as. The plain text file looses much formatting, but can still be read. Send m an email if you want and I will send the .rtf version......
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11-14-2023, 06:21 PM | #18 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Centering and arcing is referring to stock A brake components.Didn't see any reference to later parts in your first post,so until you mentioned the later parts in a later post I think everybody assumed you were dealing with a stock A.Makes lots more sense now.
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11-14-2023, 07:17 PM | #19 |
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Re: Wheel spacers
The Lockheed brake is much improved over the stock mechanical brake on the A. The safety of the car is improved, specially now as people will ride 3' behind one another at 80 MPH. My car had Ford lockheed brakes installed when I bought it, one would say it is a hybrid having 39-41 fronts and 42-48 rears. I would lean toward they used what they had, it will work well when finished, the rest of us would lean toward Frankenstein. In all honesty, for the time and money spent to make this all right, if I had it to do over I would go with the Bendix self actuating style brake. It was superior in braking effort to the Lockheed due to it's design, and much, much simpler to set up properly. When I worked in the garage I would do 2 complete brake jobs a day. This included turning drums, and rebuilding (EIS kits, popular) wheel and master cylinders with new shoes, hardware kits and hoses.
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11-15-2023, 08:11 AM | #20 | |
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Re: Wheel spacers
Quote:
It's a big hobby. I'm glad for those who set aside their Model A parts since that leaves so much more for me. One is reminded of last year's front axle assembly that was set aside by someone building a "gasser." Boxed aftermarket frame. And decided to go the Sacramento route. Nice axle - straight - and didn't need much to work it up for use. Joe K
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