The Ford Barn

MartyAndrew · 08-29-2013, 05:07 AM

Hi. The shackle holes are slightly oval in my 29's perches. Is there a fix? I think it would be tough to weld up deep in there. I know I could buy them but I'm also cheap...
See pics attached. Thanks for any help.

montanafordman · 08-29-2013, 06:51 AM

Press in your new bushing and fill the small void that the shackle wore with JB weld. At least that's what I did. YMMV

Tom Wesenberg · 08-29-2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montanafordman

Press in your new bushing and fill the small void that the shackle wore with JB weld. At least that's what I did. YMMV

That's what I would do also. I installed a couple repro shackles and had to make a small modification on the for a good fit. As I recall the repro casting was too thick in some area, so I had to grind it some.

QGolden · 08-29-2013, 07:03 AM

I had one thst was frozen (rusted) to the shackle so bad, the bushing was spinning in the perch and egg shaped it. I took a used bushing, spun it in the lathe, used emery to take the OD down a couple thousands, wrapped it in plastic wrap, (Saran Wrap). Mixed up a batch of JB Weld and epoxied the bushing in. After it cured I pushed the bushing out and pulled out the wrap, then pressed in a new bushing. The repair is completely invisible after paint.

jimvette59 · 08-29-2013, 09:35 AM

First you need to remove the old bushings then push in your new bushing and fill void with JB weld as montanafordman had suggested.

RockHillWill · 08-29-2013, 12:22 PM

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I changed my mind on this one.

Steve Plucker · 08-30-2013, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHillWill

I changed my mind on this one.

But Will...we still would like to hear your expertise and thoughts on this one!

Pluck

Brentwood Bob · 08-29-2013, 01:18 PM

mig weld is preferred by me to jbweld, unless this goes to ebay after your repair.

Tom Endy · 08-29-2013, 01:30 PM

Looking at the photos, there appears to be enough material there to adequately hold new shackle bushings in place. The oblong is caused by the shackle bolt wearing clear through the bushing into the perch. A local shop here in Southern California does have a repair. They insert a bronze rod into the perch that is the same diameter as the shackle bushing. They then fill the void around it with weld. Apparently the weld does not adhere to the bronze and they simple remove it. I have had several axle housings repaired by them.

Tom Endy

MartyAndrew · 08-29-2013, 08:55 PM

Wow, thanks everyone. I was strongly leaning toward using JB weld exactly as a few of you have described but wasn't sure it would work. Glad to hear your success stories, and to find yet another use for good ol JB Weld! Thanks a ton. That's one thing I'll be doing this weekend. Wife and daughter are on a girl trip up north with my mom, and son is at an amusement park with a friend. I am free to work on the Model A for a few days!

Marty

Tom Wesenberg · 08-29-2013, 09:19 PM

I'm not sure if JB Weld comes in slow and fast setting, but when 2 parts epoxy glues come in both, I prefer the slow set. It gives you more time to work and I think it's stronger. It takes overnight to set up.

SeaSlugs · 08-29-2013, 10:01 PM

yea the 2 parter can usually dribble down deep in it while the putty is like modeling clay but equally strong i feel. ALOT easier to work with in situations where you dont want it to run haha

Roadster62 · 08-29-2013, 10:22 PM

Do you believe there is any reason to index the seam in the bushing? Do you Loctite the bushings? Bob

Tom Wesenberg · 08-29-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadster62

Do you believe there is any reason to index the seam in the bushing? Do you Loctite the bushings? Bob

I index the seam to be 90* from the thrust side. I've never used locktite, because the bushing were already hard to drive in place.

QGolden · 08-29-2013, 10:33 PM

The bushing should be a light press fit, no need to loctite it as the shackle, if greased proper and not tightened to much, rotates inside the bushing. It is just a piece of hard steel to provide a bearing surface to prevent the shackle from wearing through the perch. As for index, I don't think there is a seam to index, at least mine did not have any.

Russ/40 · 08-30-2013, 11:07 AM

Interesting thread. A few years ago I proposed the JB solution and was shot down for it. I took a totally different solution. The bushing perches are forged steel, so they do weld easily. I did it differently in what I think is the best way to go. Remove the old bushing. Find some bar stock the same size as the OD of the new bushing. With an oxy-acetylene torch heat the worn side of the perch to red. When you get the perch hot enough, insert the bar stock into the perch, and with a hammer, forge the perch down to the bar stock to create a new concentric bore. Remove the bar stock before the perch cools. Now you can weld the perch from the outside easily to a shape you can dress down with a grinder of file to look correct. The resulting shrinkage as the perch cools will give you the interference fit you want for the new bushing. Much easier than trying to weld inside a hole, and the end result leaves no question as to durability.

john in illinois · 08-30-2013, 04:10 PM

That is the traditional way to fix it for sure. Would save rear axle perches instead of welding on replacements. I would never have thought of that.

John

tbirdtbird · 08-30-2013, 04:50 PM

you can insert a carbon rod or ceramic rod of the proper diameter in the hole, then crank up your welder and weld all the way thru to the rod, and then build up the weld a little on the outside. in this way you do not change the overall dimensionality of the perch. The weld on the outside can then be contoured with a die grinder, and on the inside with a die grinder or a file. The inside will be very very close to what you want because of the rod. This is really easy to do if the perch is out and you can have it upside down to have gravity help you. If the perch remains in the car you have to be a good welder to make this work. Trigger the MIG so you don't melt the steel out. Carbon or ceramic rod is the standard fare for a welder. Brass or bronze could work but some of it might melt, I have never tried it. If you triggered to be able to control the heat and it would prolly work. Next time I have an oval hole i will try it.

This trick works also if you are fabbing and have a hole in a plate that needs to be made smaller....put the carbon etc rod in the middle on the floor and fill the remaining space with weld.

Doug in NJ · 08-30-2013, 06:48 PM

The carbon rod + MIG trick worked very well for me when I repaired a rear perch:

http://31ford.dougbraun.com/suspension_work/IMG_5320

Doug

Bill Underwood · 08-30-2013, 08:15 PM

Carbon rod can be had from welding supply or McMaster Carr. Often called gouging rod.Can't remember if it is 3/4 or 7/8. Put in the hole and weld up the voids, mig or tig or gas
If rod is stuck, drive it out and there you have it. Insert new bushings

Swap Meet - The Ford Barn
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6

08-29-2013, 06:51 AM	#2
montanafordman Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meridian, ID Posts: 583	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Press in your new bushing and fill the small void that the shackle wore with JB weld. At least that's what I did. YMMV __________________ Aaron in T̶a̶c̶o̶m̶a̶ Meridian, Idaho (although still a Montana hillbilly at heart ) 1931 Coupe 1931 slant window sedan

08-29-2013, 07:03 AM	#4
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches I had one thst was frozen (rusted) to the shackle so bad, the bushing was spinning in the perch and egg shaped it. I took a used bushing, spun it in the lathe, used emery to take the OD down a couple thousands, wrapped it in plastic wrap, (Saran Wrap). Mixed up a batch of JB Weld and epoxied the bushing in. After it cured I pushed the bushing out and pulled out the wrap, then pressed in a new bushing. The repair is completely invisible after paint. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

08-29-2013, 09:35 AM	#5
jimvette59 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Perry OH Posts: 1,369	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches First you need to remove the old bushings then push in your new bushing and fill void with JB weld as montanafordman had suggested.

08-29-2013, 12:22 PM	#6
RockHillWill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rock Hill, S.C. Posts: 985	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I changed my mind on this one. __________________ Uncle Bud says "too soon old, too late smart!" Last edited by RockHillWill; 08-29-2013 at 12:29 PM.

08-29-2013, 01:18 PM	#8
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,420	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches mig weld is preferred by me to jbweld, unless this goes to ebay after your repair.

08-29-2013, 01:30 PM	#9
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,168	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Looking at the photos, there appears to be enough material there to adequately hold new shackle bushings in place. The oblong is caused by the shackle bolt wearing clear through the bushing into the perch. A local shop here in Southern California does have a repair. They insert a bronze rod into the perch that is the same diameter as the shackle bushing. They then fill the void around it with weld. Apparently the weld does not adhere to the bronze and they simple remove it. I have had several axle housings repaired by them. Tom Endy

08-29-2013, 08:55 PM	#10
MartyAndrew Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 52	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Wow, thanks everyone. I was strongly leaning toward using JB weld exactly as a few of you have described but wasn't sure it would work. Glad to hear your success stories, and to find yet another use for good ol JB Weld! Thanks a ton. That's one thing I'll be doing this weekend. Wife and daughter are on a girl trip up north with my mom, and son is at an amusement park with a friend. I am free to work on the Model A for a few days! Marty

08-29-2013, 09:19 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches I'm not sure if JB Weld comes in slow and fast setting, but when 2 parts epoxy glues come in both, I prefer the slow set. It gives you more time to work and I think it's stronger. It takes overnight to set up. Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 08-29-2013 at 10:30 PM.

08-29-2013, 10:01 PM	#12
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches yea the 2 parter can usually dribble down deep in it while the putty is like modeling clay but equally strong i feel. ALOT easier to work with in situations where you dont want it to run haha __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

08-29-2013, 10:22 PM	#13
Roadster62 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ridgefield, Ct Posts: 3,449	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Do you believe there is any reason to index the seam in the bushing? Do you Loctite the bushings? Bob __________________ They don't have to run to be enjoyed. I'm here to enjoy the hobby, and enjoy the cars no matter what they look like. Most of the worlds problems are electrical.

08-29-2013, 10:33 PM	#15
QGolden Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 1,231	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches The bushing should be a light press fit, no need to loctite it as the shackle, if greased proper and not tightened to much, rotates inside the bushing. It is just a piece of hard steel to provide a bearing surface to prevent the shackle from wearing through the perch. As for index, I don't think there is a seam to index, at least mine did not have any. __________________ It's not what people think they know that will hurt them, it is what they think they know that aint so! -Mark Twain. It is the very things that we think we know, that keep us from learning what we should know.- Unknown

08-30-2013, 11:07 AM	#16
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Interesting thread. A few years ago I proposed the JB solution and was shot down for it. I took a totally different solution. The bushing perches are forged steel, so they do weld easily. I did it differently in what I think is the best way to go. Remove the old bushing. Find some bar stock the same size as the OD of the new bushing. With an oxy-acetylene torch heat the worn side of the perch to red. When you get the perch hot enough, insert the bar stock into the perch, and with a hammer, forge the perch down to the bar stock to create a new concentric bore. Remove the bar stock before the perch cools. Now you can weld the perch from the outside easily to a shape you can dress down with a grinder of file to look correct. The resulting shrinkage as the perch cools will give you the interference fit you want for the new bushing. Much easier than trying to weld inside a hole, and the end result leaves no question as to durability.

08-30-2013, 04:10 PM	#17
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,220	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches That is the traditional way to fix it for sure. Would save rear axle perches instead of welding on replacements. I would never have thought of that. John

08-30-2013, 04:50 PM	#18
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches you can insert a carbon rod or ceramic rod of the proper diameter in the hole, then crank up your welder and weld all the way thru to the rod, and then build up the weld a little on the outside. in this way you do not change the overall dimensionality of the perch. The weld on the outside can then be contoured with a die grinder, and on the inside with a die grinder or a file. The inside will be very very close to what you want because of the rod. This is really easy to do if the perch is out and you can have it upside down to have gravity help you. If the perch remains in the car you have to be a good welder to make this work. Trigger the MIG so you don't melt the steel out. Carbon or ceramic rod is the standard fare for a welder. Brass or bronze could work but some of it might melt, I have never tried it. If you triggered to be able to control the heat and it would prolly work. Next time I have an oval hole i will try it. This trick works also if you are fabbing and have a hole in a plate that needs to be made smaller....put the carbon etc rod in the middle on the floor and fill the remaining space with weld. __________________ '31 180A

08-30-2013, 06:48 PM	#19
Doug in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 966	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches The carbon rod + MIG trick worked very well for me when I repaired a rear perch: http://31ford.dougbraun.com/suspension_work/IMG_5320 Doug __________________ My '31 S/W sedan project:http://31ford.dougbraun.com My restoration diary: http://dougbraun.com/blog Last edited by Doug in NJ; 11-08-2013 at 10:34 AM.

08-30-2013, 08:15 PM	#20
Bill Underwood Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 445	Re: Shackle Holes Out of Round in Perches Carbon rod can be had from welding supply or McMaster Carr. Often called gouging rod.Can't remember if it is 3/4 or 7/8. Put in the hole and weld up the voids, mig or tig or gas If rod is stuck, drive it out and there you have it. Insert new bushings Swap Meet - The Ford Barn https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6