Bleeding brakes-pedal pressure problem. Could use some advice/suggestions

[glennpm]

Good idea Terry

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Suggest you adjust the rear brakes so they have heavy drag, both the front and rear shoes before bleeding.

I did almost that, one time.

It was suggested that I run the adjusters out "tight" to help with the bleeding process. At the time, it didn't help. Of course that was "before" the residual valve suggestion came into play.

However, I will do as you suggest when I get some more stainless tubing and nuts, to make a new pair of lines and flairs comming out of the "new" MC.

The previous MC had a small chunk of the inverted flair (needed a "looking glass" to see it.) missing. Plus when I purchased that MC (couple of years before this post) the only requirments was a, 1" bore, and dual port.

Now, after posting the (multipal page) request to help me with this lack of "pedal" problem. One of the suggestions, I learned the MC requirments needed to be, 1" bpre, dual port, non power, drum drum, and NO internal residual valve.

Buddy at the Commercial Counter Section at the local Advanced, (who is good at finding "odd-ball" parts) spent a good 3/4's hour the other day searching for a new MC that guaranteed (listed each in their descriptions) to have those requirments. Kinta on the pricey side. Place wasn't on Advanced's usual suppliers list. $80. Susposed to be here Friday.

[69a]

Why do you NOT want internal residual pressure valves? It seems to me this would solve your initial problem with one purchase. Also in your original setup you had your flexible hoses connected to the metal lines without a solid bracket. This applies to ALL of your rubber brake hoses.

[acchaplin]

Happy "manditory" afternoon nap day!

The master clyinder is powder coated. (posder coating will withstand brake fluid) 400 degree baking temp will melt any springs, seals, O-rings and gaskets.

Plus In all my previous builds I NEVER had any problems with pedal ratios, residual valves, (didn't even know what they were used for, before this post) or any of the "geomtery" required for brake building. ALWAYS placed the MC where is was the most conviement, aligned up, bent lines, mounted lines, bled and played.

That is why I was so confused that I didn't have hardly any pedal after a massive amount of bleeding, with such a simple system, is why I posted my question on here. Got "learned".

Yes you are correct on the required flex hose mount(s) on each end. (sheepish grin) I forgot the one end. It's on there now, nice shiney polished stainless.

[acchaplin]

LOOKEY HERE! I, FINALLY, have full brakes!
Grandson, and son-in-law were finally here together this evening with not much to do, and we were able to bleed the brakes.
The residual valves and another MC did the trick! Full, firm, pedal now!
Pedal applied and held, can't turn the front wheels. Can barely turn the rears with much effort with a cheater bar, b etween the lugs. (If any more effort or longer bar was used on the fronts, was afraid of bending the lugs or pulling the vehicle off the jack stands.
Adjusted all four brakes three different times this evening, just to make sure there was a slight drag and everything was working properly.
Spring time, "may" have the car running to be able to do a "test drive" down to the hard road and back, and then do one final adjustment.
THANKS for all the help, and suggestions! All of youins can now go 4th and have a happy 5th on the 1st 2!

[1942deluxe]

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Good for you! I know I was probably as frustrated as you were when I couldn't get a good pedal on my 46 Ford.

[glennpm]

That's great! I had been wondering how you made out.
Keep your brakes adjusted as you have with a slight drag and keep checking until they're bedded in well.


Glenn

[rich b]

Great to hear that you got the brakes under control.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by glennpm

That's great! I had been wondering how you made out.
Keep your brakes adjusted as you have with a slight drag and keep checking until they're bedded in well.


Glenn

Yes, I had that in mind! Being able to stop is more important than any chrome doo-dads, gee-haws or being able to go fast!

I use to teach the motorcycle safety cource here. If yer out with the wind in your face going fast on two or one wheel, then suddenly you HAVE to stop or swerve. ooooops, you never checked to see if your brakes are any good! You want to know what happens then? Yer a$$hole suddenly slams shut, and you have a "Oh shit now what" moment!

I always "stressed" brakes, tires, (WV talk is "tars") pre ride inspection and high beam headlight!

Most of the time, was spent waiting for someone to stop by and help me bleed.
Christmas time, the family was out runnin errends for themselves.

I spent 10 months waiting to get the rear end gears changed and totally rebuilt. I took the rearend out the end of November of '23, and put ti back in October '24. I spent from then to now trying to get the brakes working correctly.

Also during that time I was alternating from the foot brake systen, to trying to get the hand brake to lock up the rear wheels. Very flustrating trying to figgure out what is wrong. Adjust to when the E'Brake would lock up the rear wheels, release the brake handle, there would be mssive rear wheel drag. Adjust the mechinism to where there was no drag on the rear wheels. Pull the handle to the last clog, could still turn the rear wheels by hand. Took everything apart two and three times. Everything is working correctly seperately! Assemble everything together, either, too much rear wheel drag, or no rear wheel lock up. No way to adjust a happy medium!

Had a couple of people stop by to see if by chance they could see what was wrong. No go.

Since I had taken the complete system apart several times. I finally took the hand brake lever off tonight and took it all apart, put it back together, then took it apart again, working it back and forth in the vice. I think I fould out what the whole friggin problem was!

All this time, work, adjusting, readjusting, flustration, taking it apart, putting it back together. The nice shiney chrome plated parking brake handle assembly, the ratcheting "paw" could use a couple more teeth! With extra teeth I could ratchet the handle back farther, would have more cable pull!

Assembled the handle assembly with out the "paw", put it back on the side of the transmission hooked it all up adjusted the cable with no rear wheel drag, I pulled the hand brake back and held it. Has grandson stick the braker bar in the rear wheel lugs, and try to turn either wheel. They both were locked! Let go of the handle, NO DRAG!

So now, how to get two extra tteth on that "paw". I can get a slight weld build up on the paw edge, and file the teeth notches. Or go to our local waterjet place and have a complete "paw" made with two extra teeth. That would be a couple hundred dollars. What are "your" suggestions!?

This whole build was mostly spent waiting! Parts, help, or first of the month $$

[vincent]

Extend the pulling end of your brake lever a little bit - thus you will get longer cable pull with the existing paw at the expense of using a little more force.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by vincent

Extend the pulling end of your brake lever a little bit - thus you will get longer cable pull with the existing paw at the expense of using a little more force.

Oughta make that statement a stickie.

[rich b]

What kinda of "nice shiny chrome plated" parking brake handle do you have?

I've built several lever assemblies using a '35-'36 lever and a Model A "rooster comb" (for ease of mounting).

They have had adequate pull and leverage to stop my cars.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by vincent

Extend the pulling end of your brake lever a little bit - thus you will get longer cable pull with the existing paw at the expense of using a little more force.

This wouldn't work. You would need to extend the lower lever arm, L2, on the picture below. The pawl would need to be longer and the lower part of the lever arm extended.







I have a '40 Ford e-cable for my '40 rearend in the '32. I had to shorten my cable using Nico couplings as such:





Your idea adding a couple of teeth could work. If you weld, the hardness of the adjacent teeth will decrease. Take a look into heating the pawl and then quenching it.


Glenn

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by rich b

What kinda of "nice shiny chrome plated" parking brake handle do you have?

I've built several lever assemblies using a '35-'36 lever and a Model A "rooster comb" (for ease of mounting).

They have had adequate pull and leverage to stop my cars.

A re-pop '32 handle assembly.

[acchaplin]

Ok. Here is what I did. Took "Vincent's" suggestion of not extending the upper handle travel, but extended to extreme bottom of the handle, and leave the "paw" alone to get the more cable travel to lock up the rear brakes.

IT WORKED!

Glenn, I extended the handle "below" your bottom "L-2" mark, 2". Left the "paw" ratcheting mechinism, and your "L-2" measurment the way it was.

Drilled 3, 5/16" holes 5/8" apart and 5/8" from the bottom "L-2" hole. (wasn't sure how far from the bottom "L-2" hole to drill the new hole in the extended part to get the required pull on the cable. So I guessed one of the three holes would work. You know, "Jethro Bodine" siphern. "Ought into ought and carry five")

I had to do some fancy trial and error bending of the rod and clevis's since the newly drilled holes in the handle extention and the pivot arm assembly were now below the access hole in the "K"-Member. Got it so the full travel of the hand brake lever, the rod and clevis is not binding anywhere in the access hole, and the rear brake will fully lock up, and fully release with no drag!

I'll get grandson to take some pictures to show what I am talking about.

Where I welded the extention plates on the bottom of thechrome handle, I used some "rattle can" chrome to kinta blend it in. Plan is, when and if I need something else chrome plated, I'll take the handle off and apart and get it all chromed.

[vincent]

I knew it will work, now you know as well! Happy New Year

[glennpm]

Very good! Looking forward to the pictures.

Happy New Year!