1937 Zephyr coupe

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hi all, not posted on here yet, been lurking for a while though.
Bit of an intro - I'm Paul , I live in the uk and I'm 44 years young. I have messed around with old cars since I was about 17. I have owned several stock classics as well as some rods and customs. I currently own a daily driven 51 Ford F3 truck, a 59 Dodge custom royal (total custom), and a stock 47 plymouth. My wife owns a stock 1949 Ford V8 Pilot and a stock 37 Dodge D5 coupe as well as several british bikes.

I'm building a 37 zephyr coupe, although due to its condition and the lack of a v12 it's not going to be quite stock. It's going to run a french flathead mounted to the original zephyr box. It's going to be lowered slightly but far from slammed and my aim is a traditional mild custom which will become a daily driver.
I have a build thread going on the hamb, I will add a link. If you guys want me to keep you updated then I'd be happy to do so. Just say the word.

I totally understand if it's not what you want on the forum and I'm cool with that.

Here's the link, for those that haven't seen it yet there is some rust
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ghlight=zephyr

Paul.

[3738]

Love the 37.

You are a talented metal worker, I'll be following your build....

[Fibber Mcgee]

Welcome. It sounds interesting to me and it does still have a Flathead in it even if it does eat snails,its not like it has a SBC in it. This is the place for questions and answers on Flatheads, there are some very knowledgeable people on here.

[Vic Piano]

That is outstanding!

[Chris Nelson]

Your project looks just like my 36 cabriolet looked when I started. It took a long time for me to complete, but if you have a vision of what you are doing and stick to it, you will have a car that you can be proud of. Just keep that vision.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

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I'd kill for a Zephyr coupe. I've always loved the looks of one. Cain't wait to follow the progress. Walt

[Fibber Mcgee]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

I'd kill for a Zephyr coupe. I've always loved the looks of one. Cain't wait to follow the progress. Walt

No need to kill. You just have to rob a bank.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Thanks for all the comments guys.

Vic I have been following your long running thread, some really nice cars/trucks you guys have . That zephyr of yours is lovely.

Chris, nice work on the 36 it looks great, you have every right to feel proud. I know exactly where I am going with the zephyr. I have drooled over them for years.

Hey Fibber, I have had the french (snail eating . ) flathead for a long time. It did service in a 27t roadster that I built a few years back. It needs a freshen up now, but it was my daily driver for about 7-8 years , every day of the years what ever the weather. It very rarely ran a hood and was pretty damn reliable. I covered over 80,000 miles in the 8 years, and I didn't treat it very gentle either.

Paul.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Got a bit more progress to report.
I have been doing the lead work on the sides of the roof where I welded it back on. Considering I have never done it before it's going reasonably well. Well until I bought some more lead sticks from ebay only to find that they are totally useless. I think they may well be neat lead, they melt all of a sudden and instantly go solid again. They are impossible to work.
So while I was waiting for the right ones to turn up I decided to make a rollover jig for it so I could get to the underneath easier. It works but I need to make the arms adjustable so I can centre it up to allow it to spin all the way round, but it's doing the job at the moment.

Beverly came out in the shop this afternoon and showed me how leading should be done , lol. A pretty damn good job she did too.

Hopefully I will get it leaded up quite quickly and then I can get some zinc primer on it. It's amazing how quickly it starts going rusty after heat and solder paste has been applied. I was watching it turn a rusty yellow colour before my eyes as I was applying the lead this afternoon.










Paul.

[31chevy]

Beverly is a keeper don't let her go.
Gary.

[Frank Miller]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but the flux is an acid and it is causing the "instantaneous" rust. When using lead getting the flux cleaned up and neutralized is essential for the paint to last. It is one of the drawbacks to using lead.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Frank you are correct, it is the effect of the flux that is causing the flash rust. I have washed it down with baking soda and water and warm soapy water and it is still flash rusting. It does clean up pretty good with a wire wheel in a drill though.
Trouble is I have lots of areas to lead and can't get any paint on it until it's leaded. Between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
Got quite a bit done today though.

Paul.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Forgot to say, Beverly is definitely a keeper and has been for the last 20 years. We are a pretty good team and sh's into the cars just as much as me. She's had her own hot rods and owns a lovely V8 pilot , all stock with the 21 stud flathead in it. She also has 37 Dodge business coupe also stock with the flathead 6.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Time for an update. I haven't spent a huge amount of time on the zephyr lately, but what time I have spent has been taken up with the lead work and repairs to one of the rear inner arches.
All the welds on the panels I made and where the roof was joined back on were leaded in and filed back. Because I was only doing about 2 hours work each night and the fact that I had problems keeping the flash rusting at bay during the time between working on it I opted to spray the roof panel in zinc primer and to get the lead as close as possible and then skim fill with normal filler. Not the way I had planned or really wanted but I was ending up spending more time cleaning up the panels than I was putting on more lead. To be fair I haven't had to put much filler in so it's not so bad.
I think the main problem I had was that I wasn't getting rid of all the residue from the tinning flux properly and it was causing the flash rusting.
The panels that I put in are now pretty much leaded up and filled ready for a primer coat.
The rear arch is also coming on well, it's pretty much welded up and until my grinder cooked it's brushes tonight was well on the way to being cleaned up as well.


























Paul

[Brian]

Paul, nice work...with regards the flux for your leading, I have always used a paste called 'fluxite'. It is non acidic and tins up real nice as long as the panels are clean and shiney. It is made in England, so you should be able to source it. Comes in a green tin. Brian

[mfagan]

Great job! Will be looking forward to more
Updates.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Brian thanks for the heads up, I have seen that for sale locally so will look into it.

Time for another update. Been chipping away at the zephyr this week during the evenings. I have managed to get the other inner rear arch welded up and cleaned up and the boot floor taken out ready to fabricate a new one.
Hopefully I should get some time spare this weekend to do a bit more, been working on the house and other things during the weekends as it's the only daylight time I get now.


















Paul.

[Henry/Kokomo]

Nice job. I really admire your metal working skills.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Haven't updated progress on here lately (sorry about that, it's normally pretty late time I get in from the workshop so don't have a load of time.), so I will catch up a bit. Have got quite a bit done since the last update.

Got the rear inner fenders sprayed with zinc primer, so they should be safe from the damp now. Started working on the front inner wings. Got the drivers side structual sub frame made and welded in ready to take the floor and the lower inner wing panel fabricated and also welded in. I still have the bottom of the door pillar to finish and the inner kick panel.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

I have been putting in a few hours over the xmas break, and have made some pretty good progress. I have the front inner fenders about 90% welded up, the lower bulkhead cut out and re welded, the front floor pans and associated kick panel supports fabricated and welded in , the majority of the boot floor welded in and the spare wheel well/boot floor 90% fabricated today and almost ready to weld in.
It's really beginning to look like a car again now, should be able to roll it over soon and dress up the underneath and paint it up. Then it can start going back together.

















Paul.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Finally got the boot floor welded in tonight. The panel that I fabricated the day before yesterday was a pretty much exact replica of the original, but when I tried the spare wheel on the carrier before I final welded the panel in the deck lid sat proud of the body by about 4". The only thing I can think of is the carrier I have is a sedan one and the coupe ones are a different profile.
I spent all day bashing and wheeling the floor pan that I made yesterday altering it so that the spare wheel carrier could lay further into the floor allowing the deck lid to close without hitting the spare wheel.
That's the floor completely welded in now, with just a few welds to be cleaned up before I can get it into primer.
Strange that I actually finished welding tonight the very first bits that I made for it several months ago.

















Paul.

[Juggler]

Do you never sleep?

Looking good sir

As soon as I get the pickup done I'll come and give you a look - I'm at the other end of the A146!

[VeryTangled]

Paul, I tip my hat to you. I am enjoying your build thread quite a bit. And you've started with a very desirable and sexy car.

Do you have any shots of how you go about crafting some of these pieces or some of your tools/machines?

The fender wall pieces and the floor pans have some amazing contours and I assume they started as sheet material. I have a hard time picturing the amount of patience and re-fitting it must take to end up with work that looks so nice in these photos. Regarding the pieces from your 11/23 post, I can picture you having to fit those pieces about two dozen times before it would have been satisfactory.

I'll be one of the people waiting for more reports.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey Juggler, nope haven't slept much since I bought the Zephyr
Your welcome round anytime fella, just give us a holla.

Jeff, I will post up some in progress shots of the fabricated panels. I have made all the floors,rockers and panels from 18swg flat mild steel. Although I am a fabricator by trade I have never done anything like this at work. This is the first time I have really made up panels to the level of the boot floor/spare wheel well.
The tools I use are mainly a hollowed out piece of timber around 9"x3", a mallet and a couple pf hammers , a piece of old train line as an anvil, and a very crude home made wheeling machine. I also have on loan a hand swager/bead roller and a good set of 4' box and pan folders.
I think the best tool is having the vision to be able to see what the end result should be and how to get there.
The panels in the rear inner fenders that you talk of were probably the easiest to make and really didn't take that long. The curved parts took about 2 hours a piece to make and tack weld in. The boot floor on the other hand took 4 hours the first time and then almost all day altering it as the spare wheel carrier was wrong. That had more trial fittings than I care to remember.
I will take some pics of the tools and post them when I get in from the workshop tomorrow evening.

Paul,

[Ol' Ron]

OOOHH! I gots see this when it's finished. I had a 39 Lincoln Coupe with a 85 in it.

[3738]

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It will look similar to this pretty soon....

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Man, that's some beautifull work. Very few of those kind of people around. I wish I was smart enough to do something. Walt

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey Ron, this has been a pipe dream of mine to own a zephyr coupe, never thought it would happen though. I'm a happy man, even if I have a little work to do .

That black zephyr is gorgeous , you can't not love these cars.

Hey Walt, thanks for the praise, much appreciated. Don't be frightened to have a go, it's no where near as difficult as you may think. I'm nobody special, I've had no training for this . It's just that the parts are not available here and if they were they would be at a huge cost. I will have a go at anything to see if I can do it before I resort to parting with large amounts of money.

Jeff as promised here are the pics of the tools that I used to make every new panel that you see on the zephyr. As you can see they are nothing special. The swager , shrinker/stretcher and the english wheel (forgot to take pics of that , sorry), and the occasional fold in the folders are the only machines I used, the rest are all hand tools, several home made.
The flipper/paddle is made from an old leaf spring, the anvil is an old offcut from a train line,the hammers are just some old ones that I have collected along the way,the dishing hollow was just sanded from a piece of 9"x3" timber, and a few dolly's.
I would have been better using some nylon or wooden bossing mallets instead of the ball pein hammer, but I haven't got any yet.
For the boot floor/wheel well I cut a panel slightly larger than the original and basically beat the rough shape out in the dishing hollow with the large hammer, and then wheeled the dents smooth on the wheeling machine. I rolled the curves in the panel over an old gas cylinder, and beat out any raised or dished profiles that were needed. The swages were done on the swager/bead roller.





























Paul.

[3738]

Paul,

Excellent work.

I also have a section of railroad track I use as an anvil.

I was driving by a crew replacing rails, asked if I could have a couple short sections they had laying there and got one for me, my dad and a friend.

[Woodie1]

You've done a great job so far. I do wonder though how you roll beads in the middle of the panels with the rollers on the outside of steel boxing.

[VeryTangled]

Dude, you must put Ringo Starr to shame!

These are beautiful cars. I think this one is a '40.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey Woodie1 I see where you are coming from with the bead roller comment. The picture is not clear, but there is a slot from the work piece which is almost the full width of the machine.
It will allow around 19" or 500mm of depth for the beads, but because the slot is only around 1 1/2" in height it means that the bits have to be done in almost a flat profile and then curved if needed. This is ok unless it's a tight curve as it then flattens out or kinks the beads.

I got the floors in zinc primer tonight, looking much better and when the seam sealer arrives I can get it all sealed in ready for final paint.
The paint is the orange colour in the pics, but shows a brown colour in the ones taken with no flash. I kind of like the colour of them.
The paint also looks a bit thin on the ground in some of the pics, they are just dull patches as it was starting to dry.















Paul

[Vic Piano]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Dude, you must put Ringo Starr to shame!

These are beautiful cars. I think this one is a '40.

-VeryTangled/Jeff

Jeff, that's a '41 LZ, a real beauty. I love Zephyr's.

[Robert Dip]

Paul, love your work and great skills. Brings back memories when I re-did the entire floor of my old ’34. Sheet metal replacement floors did not exist back then, and I patiently made every detail contour exactly like the original. Not being a ‘real’ metalman, it took me quite a while to do this. Over the years, I found that using cold roll sheets in the 18 & 16 gauge worked much better for me. Since the ribs on a ’34 are flat in the middle, I used ¼” aluminium plate and machined the indents, then proceeded to hammer the shape with a steel flat bar that matched the size. I found that the metal retained its shape better than the hot roll. After tacking, I welded the seams using a tig welder, mostly fusing the joints together, very little warping in the process. Turned out great, but you must surely think that I went through a lot more trouble than needed….but that’s me. Just would like your comments on using cold roll sheet as compared to the regular hot roll. Thanks for sharing your project…Robert

[Ghost of elmirage]

LOVE Zephyr coupes pretty ladies

[41ford1]

Subscribed.

That is some fine work you are doing. The end result will be awesome!

[Big_Guys_baby]

subscribed!

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey Robert, that is some very nice work that you did on the floor pans. I don't think it's more trouble than needed at all. The end result looks as good as the day it left the factory and if that was your aim then it was worth all the work.
I have done some pretty tidy work on the zephyr, but I know if I had taken more time I could have done it better. Thing is I would never had been able to make the zephyr original looking again in any kind of reasonable time and I want to get it on the road and use it . Because it was pretty much a rusted wreck when I got it and wasn't actually a coupe I reckoned I could get away with building what I wanted out of it. So the end result should resemble a zephyr coupe but with a slight lowering job with a traditional stance and a few subtle changes here and there.

As for my thoughts on the cold rolled versus hot rolled sheet, All I can say is there are several different grades of steel all classed pretty much the same. We make ventilation ducting at work and the difference in steel quality and workability is amazing. Some is really malleable and soft, some is really hard and starts to kink when rolled, and some is quite springy and wont hold shape very well. All are sold as the same type just different suppliers and prices. The stuff I have used on the zephyr is bright rolled (cold rolled) as apposed to the black rolled (hot rolled) mild steel. I think the tempers are changed in the annealing and cold rolling process so it's slightly better to use. I'm sure it can be bought in different tempers too, but don't quote me on that.

Paul.

[rotorwrench]

I imagine Zephyrs are hard enough to find let alone the 18 gauge AKDQ cold rolled sheet steel over in the UK. These items are difficult enough to find here in the USA. I'm with you about getting a car back on the road. We usually dream about the car until we get them and realize we need a lathe, then a milling machine, then a bead roller, then a power hammer, and on, and on, and on. It never stops and you can never have too many tools. I may never have more than a few cars by the time they cover me up with dirt but I'll sure have a lot of tools.

If you and yours stay at it, you will have a fine ride before too long.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Still chipping away at it, got all the seams and any welding seam sealed to stop any future problems.









I have tackled the very bodgy repair on the front crossmember. The spring had forced it's way through at some point the same as the rear had, the repair consisted of several hefty lumps of steel bolted in place to hold the spring.
This ended up raising the front by at least an inch, time all the steel was in place. I have repaired the crossmember and raised the top an inch which should give me another inch drop .









I have also welded up some of the many holes in the firewall, several were original and had the pins in that held the sound proofing and some have been put in over the years by previous owners. Some were drilled right through the swage lines.





I also had to repair the mount that the steering box bolts to on the chassis, when I removed the box there was a crack in the mount, so I v'ed it out and welded it up again.





Paul

[1937pickup]

Great work-you are an artist in metal fab. Someone should send you a v-12 for that car. Have you had any problems fabing parts due to Englands conversion to the metric system, LOL.

[Flat Ernie]

Excellent work, Paul! Always amazed!

[OLDTGUY]

Paul, Beautiful work!

[Blownflatheaddeuce]

Definately watching this one....Lz esp 37s are beautiful !!

BFD

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Bit more progress done, finally got out in the workshop this afternoon after spending all week suffering man flu.
I bought a 40s ford master cylinder from Duksville and needed to make the brackets to fit it.
I wanted to use the original pedal set up which was for cable brakes. These incorporate the handbrake linkage so they have remained as well.
I have made the bracket so it bolts in using original holes in the chassis, which is a result.
It's all mocked up and looks like it's going to work well, and once painted should look pretty well in keeping with the rest of the chassis.










Paul.

[Lawson Cox]

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AWESOME BODY WORK. Thanks for the pictures and keeping us posted.

[Brian]

Fantastic work Paul. You are to be congratulated for not only taking on a project that would be beyond most of us, but you are seeing it through, and as if that ain't enough, you are recording it all and posting on here! You will have, without a doubt [in my opinion anyway!], the best car in Britain!

[41ford1]

Paul,
You are a sheetmetal magician. Without a doubt your LZ will be one of the best anywhere.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

I now have the whole underneath sprayed with two heavy coats off zinc rich primer followed by two good coats of rustoleum gloss black. The front beam ,wish bones ,torque tube and rear axle has had the same and are now bolted up all be it with tempory bolts.
It is now back on it's wheels for a total mock up to see what kind of ride height it's ended up at. I have got the engine in, after making up new mounts. It fits well and even the boss on the back of the french block clears the firewall. The pilot rad looks like it's going to fit like it was made to go in there
I have also started to strip the flathead down, took the heads off and to my surprise after 7 years of having the balls revved of it the bores are like absolute new. It also has the 4" crank which I had never checked before. Result. should get away with a set of rings (maybe pistons to, as they are still the french ones in there) and some shells and she should be good to go again.



















Paul.

[frenchy dehoux]

Nice project well done.

Frenchy

[Wensum Valley Rods]

About time I did an update . Bit of a long and picture laden one I'm afraid.
I have had all the fenders,running boards,grill and hood shot blast so I could start work on them.
I have started on the massive job of trying to make something of the doors. I have made up repair sections to repair the door frame, and in the process have radiused the rear corners to match the front corners. There is a huge amount of work involved in getting the sedan/coupe door amalgamation to fit the coupe body. The bottom of the sedan doors are dead straight when looked on from above, but the coupe curves to match the profile of the rockers. This meant that I had to cut and shape the bottom of the door frame to match this curve. I had to make a new patch panel for the inside of the door panel where the door lock/window winder mechs bolt up. I have decided to use the original door skins and just remake the bottom as the one I have started on has gone together pretty well and the metal is still very good.
I have leaded both the screen pillars and apart from some fine tuning with a smaller blow torch are good to go.
I have always planned to change a few things on the body which I think improve on it. The Zephyr is pretty much spot on as it came from the factory, but I noticed that the rear panel and the ends of the rear fenders finished in a straight line across the back and the bumper had a nice shaped profile to it. I have spent a couple of hours tonight making a mock up rear pan and tacking it on , with some strips mocked in on the fenders I think it will look way better.
It should follow the shape of the bumper and the rear deck lid and just finish it all off.
I have also removed the filler cap from the rear fender, and will mount a new one in the boot as it will run predominantly lpg.

[Brian]

Your new rear end looks better than original profile for sure! Keep up this outstanding workmanship, I follow your updates with much interest.

[Willit Stop]

More fun than smashing bugs isn't it? Nice work! Love it!

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey guys,
Wow I can only apologise for not keeping this thread up dated. Due to issues with registering the zephyr over here and the amount of work I ended up having to do in a very short space of time I just didn't find time to keep you all up to scratch on the build.
I will post a link to the hamb build again as I did manage to keep a limited thread on there.

The long and short of it is that I did get the zephyr on the road, it did get a coat of paint (all be it temporary to keep the elements out) and it has got most of it's interior.
I managed to get it to the Pendine sands VHRA meet and also raced it on the beach as planned. It's now in almost daily use and won't get much more work now until the winter at the earliest.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...720735&page=13

Paul.

[37coop]

Originally Posted by Wensum Valley Rods

Time for an update. I haven't spent a huge amount of time on the zephyr lately, but what time I have spent has been taken up with the lead work and repairs to one of the rear inner arches.
All the welds on the panels I made and where the roof was joined back on were leaded in and filed back. Because I was only doing about 2 hours work each night and the fact that I had problems keeping the flash rusting at bay during the time between working on it I opted to spray the roof panel in zinc primer and to get the lead as close as possible and then skim fill with normal filler. Not the way I had planned or really wanted but I was ending up spending more time cleaning up the panels than I was putting on more lead. To be fair I haven't had to put much filler in so it's not so bad.
I think the main problem I had was that I wasn't getting rid of all the residue from the tinning flux properly and it was causing the flash rusting.
The panels that I put in are now pretty much leaded up and filled ready for a primer coat.
The rear arch is also coming on well, it's pretty much welded up and until my grinder cooked it's brushes tonight was well on the way to being cleaned up as well.


























Paul

paul I,m inspired ,I,v also got a 37 zephyr coupe ,I,v had it 26 years and been put away to begin restoration 25 years ago and still is ,its rhd and one of 40 odd made, i,m at the moment at the back end of a 25 year restoration of my 39 coupe (I never rush things ) and a recent import 51f1 truck,the zephyr is my next project ,its pretty complete with a v8 in but with the 12 that's locked ....its going to need welding in places but no pud on it and very straight ,looking forward to starting it , seeing yours made my heart a flutter ,good luck and I,ll keep em peeled , cheers jim.

[37coop]

wow paul, I,v just seen your posting ,I do the barn daily and never seen this before , the work is amazing ,I did a similar resto on my 39 coupe (imported from w.virginia 26 years ago),my work though is not in your class but I reckon I,m o.k at fabricating and welding and painting ,I finished the body work then got into old English and American bikes ,I had nine at one time now just got five , my 37 zephyr coupe will be started on next spring hopefully ,after seeing your photos I feel like starting it tomorrow ,I live in kent and now retired but as keen and busy as ever , good luck , cheers jim.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Hey Jim, good to hear from you. Sounds like you also have your hands full. Would love to catch up and maybe see your zephyr at some time. I think that's three 37 coupes I know of over here now.

Paul.

[37coop]

hello again , sorry to be a stalker , I,m hypaventilating here, the grill on my zephyr is going to be a challenge ,almost all the slats have tin worm, do you do your own mechanical work,wow ,the best thing I,v seen on the barn ,cheers jim.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

Jim, have pm'ed you mate.

[Wensum Valley Rods]

A few pics of the zephyr at Pendine sands.









Here's a link to the rest of the build thread from the Hamb.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...720735&page=13

Paul.

[mike42]

Great job ! Wow...!

['36 5W]

Very nice rust repair, indeed.

What did you use to match the reinforcing rib on the left quarter patch? (I have a similar repair to do on my firewall, and having only hand tools, thought hammer and dollying the sheet-metal patch over a pipe of similar width might work).