Voltage Regulator Question

[Old Henry]

I'VE GOT JUICE!!

Put in the new brushes and I've got more amps coming out of that generator than I know what to do with. Certainly more than I've seen for a very long time.

(Funny, how the regulator seems to be working just fine now that the generator is. )

Thanks to all for all of your ideas, suggestions, instructions, and sheer moral support!

[Old Henry]

More question:

Does it matter how many amps the generator puts out? As I said, I've never seen my battery gauge go so high. In the past it has gone high (like 1/8" to the right) if the battery is real low and needs charging but slowly moves to the middle as it charges. Tonight it was at least 1/4" to the right with lights, radio, spot light, and heater fan on. I eventually smelled something heating up so slowed down till the gauge went down closer to the middle.

Do I have a problem with the regulator?

I monitored the voltage at the battery for some time after I got everything hooked back up and it stayed at about 6.88 volts at 1500 RPM's so I'm not concerned about excessive voltage. I just wonder whether I need to be concerned about what seems to be high charging rate. In other words, the voltage regulator seems to be controlling the voltage but the current regulator maybe not so well??

[koates]

Hi Henry, sorry been away for a couple of days. You are doing well so far and you can see that the open circuit voltage test did tell you the gen had no output. Your voltage reg setting does not seem too high but it is best to connect your voltmeter neg test lead on the generator A terminal on the regulator not on the battery neg terminal. The voltage reading can be between 7.2 to 7.5 volts for the voltage reg setting but this can vary depending on the charging current (amps ) flowing into the battery. To check the current regulator max amps setting ( 33 amps on your ford ) hold the voltage reg two contacts closed with your fingers OR place a small jumper wire across the contacts. Voltage reg is the left hand side unit. You really need a good test ammeter in line with the regulator Batt. terminal to do this accurately but the dash panel ammeter will surfice. Rev engine up to 2,000 rpm and note amps reading. If it is over 33 amps lower the spring tension adjustment on the current regulator contacts ( the center unit of the reg ) a tiny amount and test again. If setting is low increase spring tension a little. I usually set the current at 30 amps so as to make it a bit less stressful on old gen armature windings. As our good friend rotorwrench has stated all this regulator , generator testing and setting info is printed in the ford service bulletins but does tend to get a little over complicated for the layman. See how you go, regards, Kevin.

[koates]

To walt-dupont, The open circuit test can be done on most generators. BUT the field circuit is not the same in all generators. For example, ford, lucas and some delco and autolite have the field circuit connected through the regulator to the armature or generator terminal. This is called the B circuit. Some other delco and autolite generators the field circuit is connected through the regulator to ground which is called the A circuit. So when testing you must know what system you have and all the particular specifications of the generator and regulator. Setting voltage regulators can be complicated and unless you have some fairly good electrical knowlege and good AUTOMOTIVE type test meters then better left to an expert, eg. an older auto electrician if you can find one. Hope this helps, regards, Kevin.

[russcc]

Congratulations on finding the brush issue. If you don't already have one, grounding the generator to the regulator is good practice.

[Blu Dice]

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Anyone got the part number for the brushes - '50 8ba generator 6v?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Blu Dice

Anyone got the part number for the brushes - '50 8ba generator 6v?

NAPA's part number is the same as for my 59A - ECH F404 here: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Re...0026%2b2026073

[Blu Dice]

Great thanks!

[Old Henry]

Mac's are here: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Re...0026%2b2026073

C&G's are here: http://cgfordparts.com/ufolder/cgcat...h&searchnumber=

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by russcc

Congratulations on finding the brush issue. If you don't already have one, grounding the generator to the regulator is good practice.

I have that.
Thanks for the hint.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by koates

To check the current regulator max amps setting ( 33 amps on your ford ) hold the voltage reg two contacts closed with your fingers OR place a small jumper wire across the contacts. Voltage reg is the left hand side unit. You really need a good test ammeter in line with the regulator Batt. terminal to do this accurately. Kevin.

Kevin, thanks so much for your help.

Looks like I'll have to come up with an ammeter to really know.

But, would any harm come to anything if the generator was just left to put out more than 33 amps? Like, would it overcharge the battery, heat it up, and damage it? Or anything else? Or, is the only downside to high output the extra stress on the generator armature?

[Rich-CO]

Another way to tighten the generator belt is with an engine hoist. I loop a towing strap around the generator case and use the hoist to pull up on the strap. Works great and no scratching of paint on the generator or surrounding components..

[Old Henry]

Something is not right here.

Set out for my Sunday drive today. When I got up to 50 mph the battery gauge maxed out on the charge side and I soon smelled that burning smell. Stopped and unhooked the regulator from the generator to stop it from charging altogether since I was just going on a short drive in daylight and didn't need it charging. I'd mess with it later. As I drove I thought more about the symptoms and possible causes and stopped again to check things out. I hooked the regulator back up but put paper between the contacts on the voltage regulator and current regulator. That should have shut the generator clear off. It was still overcharging! It looked like the generator was acting all on its own to charge without any input from the regulator. I thought I'd check by touching my test light to the output on the generator. Blew it up! I then put my volt meter on that terminal and the generator was putting out 27 volts all by itself without being hooked to anything but ground!

I can only guess that somehow the output has shorted to the field circuit and it is feeding the field from the output and making it charge to max the same as in the open circuit voltage test koates previously described in #9.

Does that sound about right? Or, something else?

[koates]

Henry, disconnect the field wire at the generator and then recheck the output voltage again. If that stops gen charging the problem could be a short in the gen to regulator wiring or maybe inside the reg. You have to be sure that the reg you are using is the correct type to match the generator. I think you were using an autolite reg which could be either field to armature circuit (correct for ford gen) OR field to ground circuit which is incorrect for ford generator. Which have you got fitted ? As l have stated before the best reg is a genuine ford one WW2 type for preference. Now if the generator is still charging flat out with that field wire disconnected then there is a short or incorrect connection in the field circuit inside the generator. Pull gen off and open up and recheck what was done when you replaced the brushes. Check the two field wires where they are connected and get back to me. Regards, Kevin.

[PeteVS]

Do you still have the regulator that you took off? Since the problem was with the brushes, it's likely that the regulator you replaced was OK.

[koates]

Henry, your question re generator charging more than 33 amps which is the SAFE MAXIMUM output for your ford. If your battery was low and you had some loads turned on such as headlights, heater fan etc the voltage reg would transfer control to the current reg which would allow up to 33amps gen output (providing it is set at that rating ) until the battery had come up some AND OR the loads are turned off. If the generator was allowed to charge at say 40 amps for a time the armature windings would overheat and become crispy burnt, solder thrown out off commutator etc,etc. As l said l usually set ford current regs at 30 amps so as to go easy on the gen. You need a good accurate test ammeter to set the current reg. Regards, Kevin.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Do you still have the regulator that you took off? Since the problem was with the brushes, it's likely that the regulator you replaced was OK.

I have three regulators. The new Echlin from NAPA I just got and another just like it I had for a spare as well as the one I just took off. Once I get the generator working right I'll test all of them with it. You're probably right that at least more than one of them are still good.

[Old Henry]

I still need some help. Here's what's happened since my last post.

Took the generator down to the local generator "expert" to work on it since I had bigger fish to fry at the time (7 court trials in a week). He said the armature was bad and didn't know where to get one. That's when I posted the question about where to get one. In response to suggestions on that thread I first ordered a "remanufactured" armature number 8BA-10005-A from oldobsolete.com. That's the number in the Green Bible. It came but wouldn't fit. Wasted $40.00 on that one. Then tried to buy the new armature from Amsco Valley Forge as another said to do. Couldn't buy because I wasn't a dealer. Neither was my generator "expert". Found a dealer 40 miles away near another "expert" so drove the generator to there to get fixed. He also had a rewound armature he tried to put on but it wouldn't fit either. So, he got a new one that fit except it didn't have the groove for the snap ring on the end. By that time I didn't care as much about the snap ring as just getting the thing fixed so let him put that armature in. He tested it and said it was OK so I paid for it, brought it home, and put it in with each of the three regulators I have.

Here's the problem: All three regulators work exactly the same - at highway engine speeds they allow the generator to pump 10.3 volts into the battery (and the rest of the electrical system for that matter). I don't have an amp meter so don't know how many amps are going onto the battery with all of those volts but I'm pretty sure it's way too much.

So, what's broken and how do I fix it?

I've got the Ford repair manual for the generator and have read everything about the generator and regulator including the specs for each of the regulators and how to adjust them but it's hard for me to believe that all three regulators need the very same adjustment to reduce the voltage and amps coming out of the generator. One regulator I just bought brand new from NAPA.

What do you think?

Before I replaced the brushes on the generator it never acted like this.

[Old Henry]

OK. Get this. I just totally disconnected the wire from the field on the generator. That's supposed to keep the generator from doing anything. Right? Started up the engine and it still is overcharging! With nothing attached to the field wire! That's exactly what it was doing that I first took it into the first "expert" to fix. I told him what it was doing and all he kept saying is "that's impossible. It doesn't work that way". Now, after two "experts" and four armatures, it's still doing the same thing.

Why is it doing that and how do I fix it? I hate to put $230.00 into a new generator if I can fix this one.

[Old Henry]

Just disconnected the ground wire from the generator so all it has hooked to it is the armature wire and it's still overcharging! The thing has a life of its own!