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01-02-2018, 02:51 PM | #1 |
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Diamond Block Questions
I have decided to exit the Model A hobby for the foreseeable future and will be parting with many of my extra pieces and whatnot. I have a diamond block engine that is numbered *A4870927* which brings the year of manufacture in right between 1938 and 1939.
What I'm hoping to find is more information about what their "deal" is. Given Model As were produced up until 1931, it is unusual for an engine to be produced so late. I understand that they may have been extra engines or that they were produced for non-auto uses. Does anyone have more information? Also, what would be the value on one in good shape and in running condition? Mine has been painted a metallic blue, but is still operational. I don't think it would need a rebuild, but maybe just new gaskets. Thanks for the help. I have included a link to the pics, they are the very last two photos on the album here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...or-sale.27941/ |
01-02-2018, 06:22 PM | #2 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
A Fan, Here is a link that should help.
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/diamondblock.htm The later castings are desirable for the guys wanting to hop up a banger as the castings had better material and structure. The number on the block is probably not the number for the block itself but was transferred from the previous motor that was removed? Hope this helps. I know others will chime in. Good Luck |
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01-02-2018, 06:38 PM | #3 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
If you look on the lower block, carb side just behind the timing gear case you should see a raised letter and two numbers. My diamond block reads C 5 7 which means March 5th, 1937. These blocks had some modern improvements in them. I am sure others will be able to tell you more
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01-02-2018, 08:56 PM | #4 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? Last edited by Chris Haynes; 01-03-2018 at 06:32 PM. |
01-02-2018, 10:02 PM | #5 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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01-03-2018, 12:41 AM | #6 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? |
01-03-2018, 02:44 AM | #7 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
That number is not a diamond number.
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01-03-2018, 02:48 AM | #8 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Aren’t you talking about a Model B block anyway? They would all have been produced after 1931. I would guess that many B blocks have had engine numbers stamped on them as required as, as stated, they did not come stamped.
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01-03-2018, 05:18 AM | #9 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
On Vince's site that would equate to December 9 1936 1296
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01-03-2018, 05:52 AM | #10 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
That is probably I296. Or September 29 1936
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01-03-2018, 04:16 PM | #11 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Thanks, Jim and JJJ.
Consistent with comment above about these blocks not having numbers stamped on them, I can see that there is no star at either end of the number that is or rather, was there. I think it is probably a number put there some time since 1936 by who knows who and who knows why.
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01-03-2018, 05:13 PM | #12 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
A "B" cam is one of the best parts of the these blocks but mostly that they were run in industrial motors such as combines and irrigation pumps which mean they ran at low rpm's and no lateral crank movement due to no clutch action most of the time. That way the original crank journals are usually in good shape. If the flywheel housing is still attached you will find another date stamp there.
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01-03-2018, 05:59 PM | #13 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Model B had numbers on the bell housing, not the block. Model A Diamond blocks were available through the late '30's. Diamond blocks were not numbered.
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01-03-2018, 06:31 PM | #14 |
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...
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1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? |
01-03-2018, 08:39 PM | #15 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
I am just as baffled by it as well, but I don't have a good photo currently. I will try to get a photo of the serial number before the new owner takes it away. It has stars on both ends of the number and based on one of the websites with the info, it is from between 1938 and 1939. I don't understand why someone would mark it with that number (coinciding to that time period) if it wasn't in fact made during between those years.
Hopefully a picture will provide some clues. I'll check on the block for a date code as well. Thanks for the interesting discussion. I like that sort of thing. |
01-04-2018, 02:27 PM | #16 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Gentlemen - These discussions have peaked my curiosity about my own (rebuilt) diamond block engine earmarked for my roadster project. The letters are L226 preceded and followed by a slotted round head screw. Am I correct in assuming this lettering would indicate October 22nd of 1936?? Is it known that these diamond blocks came with a "B" cam?? Thank You in Advance.
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01-05-2018, 03:23 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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From my notes: Beginning in August 1932, complete Model A service block engines were all fitted at the Rouge with Model B camshafts and push rods (tappets), according to the Engine Production Foreman's records. This feature carried forward into diamond block production.
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01-05-2018, 04:16 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Quote:
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/diamondblock.htm
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01-05-2018, 03:12 PM | #19 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Vince told me he has never seen a number like the X240 without the screw that is on my block.
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01-05-2018, 04:40 PM | #20 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
After reading JRShaw's post (#16), I went back to my diamond A block and had a closer look. The number I gave in post #5 was incorrect. In better light, I can see it is J296 (not 1296) and just like JR's, it is preceded and followed by the shape of a screw head.
Following the reasoning expressed here, I figure that motor would have been cast on October 29th, 1936. Is that correct? The block came to me as part of a deceased estate along with a couple of other disassembled motors, one being a B. The camshaft from the B block is easy to identify by the fuel pump lobe but how do I tell the B cam that was in the diamond A block from the ordinary A cams I also got?
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01-10-2018, 04:16 PM | #21 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Here are some pics of the Diamond Block Engine. The stamping indicated 1938-39 manufacture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/IVxe89sZdUG8q6Gf2 https://photos.app.goo.gl/kZdgLqyW9j0UxzFf2 https://photos.app.goo.gl/jIwAfZcjX0usrj6y1 |
01-10-2018, 09:11 PM | #22 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
The font on those numbers doesn't look like factory. Two different size A's?
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01-10-2018, 09:20 PM | #23 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
A diamond block manufactured in 1938-39 wouldn't have a factory stamped serial number anyway.
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01-10-2018, 11:21 PM | #24 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Who would take the time or hassle to stamp it with the star and numbers then? And why stamp it with a number that would place it at such a late manufacture date? Regardless, it is a true diamond block.
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01-10-2018, 11:52 PM | #25 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Thats a 4 bolt water pump...can you post a picture of the other side of that engine?
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01-11-2018, 12:01 AM | #26 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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I have a lot of personal experience with diamond blocks. I've taken 25+ off Gleaner Combines in Kansas/Nebraska where I grew up. I just took one off in October. It had a 4 million number after Model A Production on the Pad. In regard to the serial number pad. There is (3) variations I've found. 1. Pad with a "G" and numbers following it. These have all been lightly stamped. An Example would be "G972" I believe this number was stamped by Gleaner. 2. No number at all. Very evident that there was never a number stamped on these pads. 3. Is a 4 million number like the one "Model A Fan" has pictured. These numbers were all after the Model A Ford Production I have several of all (3) variations of these blocks in storage in Kansas. I've had a lot of fun buying Gleaner Combines for the Model A Motors and just buying the motors and taking them off. When I was younger my Dad would help me. We had it down to a science unbolting them and rolling them onto our trailer with pipe under the engine stand. When I was buying these in the 70's the biggest competition was the iron buyers. |
01-11-2018, 12:31 AM | #27 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
So you basically want to know what a non running model a engine is worth...its a pig in a poke,you'd be lucky to see 200 bucks..hook it up and run it? maybe 500 bucks to someone..special?it aint that special,they made over 4 million of them.
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01-11-2018, 11:19 AM | #28 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
"Maybe" the phrase, "A DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH" came from these engines?????
Bill Wordplay
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01-11-2018, 10:15 PM | #29 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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01-11-2018, 10:55 PM | #30 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
The diamond means it wasn't cast at the Rouge,dont know if that's a good thing or not.
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01-12-2018, 09:00 AM | #31 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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01-12-2018, 09:26 AM | #32 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/diamondblock.htm It appears diamond castings were assembled at the Rouge,but cast elsewhere.Mr Falter mentions Highland Park.Would be interesting to know the furnace that made the iron,no doubt the iron design was Ford spec..The Rouge heats were consistent,volume heats from a furnace in constant operation.Did the furnace that produced the diamond block heats have the same consistency? who knows.. |
01-12-2018, 10:29 AM | #33 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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I think you need to go back and read what Vince stated in his article. "Original documentation which explains specifically why the diamond symbol was added to the block, or what it signifies has not yet come to light. If found, it may indicate the casting supplier or location." |
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01-12-2018, 10:42 AM | #34 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
Selective editing? Perhaps you need to read it again,the entire page.He makes it clear the heats weren't done at the Rouge,which was my point.
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01-12-2018, 11:29 AM | #35 | |
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You stated: The diamond means it wasn't cast at the Rouge,dont know if that's a good thing or not. That's False! I'm done with this. |
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01-12-2018, 12:39 PM | #36 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
It's ok if you can't comprehend what's written,just don't make an argument about it
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01-12-2018, 10:13 PM | #37 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
I was just making a play on words..."Diamond in the Rouge (Rough)". I wasn't insinuating the blocks were/weren't cast at the Rouge Plant.
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01-12-2018, 10:33 PM | #38 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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Ford manufactured in a continuous process,when service demanded items no longer in production logic dictates that some process were too expensive to perform in a jobber type short run at the Rouge,like casting,production demands precluded service need..Ford did ride herd on their subcontractors,both for cost and maintaining standards, the oral histories give a good idea of what it was like in production at the time. http://cdm15889.contentdm.oclc.org/c...on/p15889coll2 |
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01-13-2018, 12:15 AM | #39 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
duplicate
Last edited by mike657894; 01-13-2018 at 12:22 AM. |
01-13-2018, 12:17 AM | #40 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
I have a diamond on my block and no serial ill have to check my casting number. i had noticed a couple hardened seats but it didnt look like all were hardened but i may need to look closer. And how different is this B cam. my cam has very pointy lobes with no duration.
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01-13-2018, 12:46 AM | #41 | |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
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01-13-2018, 10:02 AM | #42 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
I would say you can tell by the fuel pump cam lobe and the maximum lift.The lobe if you have it is a dead give away.I have a B cam that appears to be unground yet only has a max lift of .270,yet all I can find on B cams puts the max at over .300..
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01-13-2018, 04:49 PM | #43 |
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Re: Diamond Block Questions
I looked at mine and it has the b cam with .315 of lift. It measured .895 and 1.210 I did that quick with a dial caliper so may not be accurate. It has hardened exhaust seats and I tried to do some rubbings of the casting marks and I think I see F1210 or FA210
looking at the picture. under flash it looks more like FA210. The F is the lightest letter and may just be a interesting rust formation. |
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