reinstalling oil pump.

[FrankWest]

The Model A Mechanics Handbook by Les Andrews says nothing about indexing the pump with the cam gear? And forbids doing anything with the plug on the block along the oil pump. Perhaps that automatically takes place by the pressure of the oil pump spring. also The Complete MOdel A Ford Restoration Manual by Les Pearson, say do not unscrew the plug along the block near the shaft of the oil pump. Just pretend that it does not exist.

Strange that two experts of the model A are names LES!

I am sure someone out there has replaced a Model A oil pump.
How did you reinstall it? Does the upward pressure from the oil pump spreing automatically push the top slot of the oil pump into the proper cam??
Whats the real story? Should I just junk my car and buy a Ford Pinto?

[pat in Santa Cruz]

remove the plug. run an 1/8th pipe tap part way in, but not too far as to interfere with the pump shaft. When you install the pump, set the slot approximately where it will align with the tab on the dist drive gear. Rotate the pump housing back and forth lightly until the housing detent drops into the hole. Then reach up and tighten the tap so it will hold the pump in place. Install the pan, remove the tap and replace the plug.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

The Model A Mechanics Handbook by Les Andrews says nothing about indexing the pump with the cam gear? And forbids doing anything with the plug on the block along the oil pump. Perhaps that automatically takes place by the pressure of the oil pump spring. also The Complete MOdel A Ford Restoration Manual by Les Pearson, say do not unscrew the plug along the block near the shaft of the oil pump. Just pretend that it does not exist.

Strange that two experts of the model A are names LES!

I am sure someone out there has replaced a Model A oil pump.
How did you reinstall it? Does the upward pressure from the oil pump spreing automatically push the top slot of the oil pump into the proper cam??
Whats the real story? Should I just junk my car and buy a Ford Pinto?

Yeah, just junk the A. I'll come drag it out of your garage for you. Buy the Pinto. Then come back and tell us how easy it is to get replacement parts for the 40 year old transmission from the OEM in Germany.

[FrankWest]

Ha Ha I have a 1933 model B, if the model A engine is too much trouble maybe I will replace it with the v8.

[J Franklin]

Here is how I do it. Use a bit of paper to wedge the pin on the pump into the respective hole in the block and replace the pan, It is too simple! pre-fit the shafts or turn the engine till the shafts drop together.

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by hardtimes

And , there is ONE more method. Remove engine and put pump in with engine upside down . That's where I'm at now with short block

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

The oil pump does not have to be timed, just turn it until the tab goes in the slot and the pump goes all the way to the block. You can remove the plug in the block if you want and use a home made tool to keep the pump from falling out until you get the pan on. The hole in the block is a PIPE THREAD not a bolt thread.
My assistant named Star has to inspect and approve all my work.

Thanks for your help and taking the time to take pictures. And the great insight about the pump froppong all the way in when the gears and indexed, fantastic!!!! You are great!

[Tom Wesenberg]

There is one more method to hold the pump that is easy to use. I was helping a friend and didn't have my threaded pump holding tool, so I wrapped a thin piece of wire around the pump shaft near the top. I twisted the wire end outside the block to form about a 6" loop, then hooked the loop with a bungee cord and pulled the other end of the bungee up and hooked it to something to keep sideways and upward pull on the pump. When I had the pan bolts started, I cut the wire and pulled it out, then finished tightening the pan bolts.

Remember, the gasket needs to be installed to the block along with the end corks, and NOT to the pan.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

There is one more method to hold the pump that is easy to use. I was helping a friend and didn't have my threaded pump holding tool, so I wrapped a thin piece of wire around the pump shaft near the top. I twisted the wire end outside the block to form about a 6" loop, then hooked the loop with a bungee cord and pulled the other end of the bungee up and hooked it to something to keep sideways and upward pull on the pump. When I had the pan bolts started, I cut the wire and pulled it out, then finished tightening the pan bolts.

Remember, the gasket needs to be installed to the block along with the end corks, and NOT to the pan.

And , there is ONE more method. Remove engine and put pump in with engine upside down . That's where I'm at now with short block

[FrankWest]

Great info.
I am asking this because I have a problem with the pipe plug on my motor. The plug won't come out, I tried everything. So I am looking for alternatives to do the job without having the plug hole. The last thing I want to do is damage the plug and have an oil leak.
Thanks a million, you guys are great!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I figured that might be the case. I too wouldn't try to remove the plug, but just hold the pump with the wire I mentioned or the paper in the peg that J Franklin mentioned.

[FrankWest]

I hear the term short block? What is that? Is that for smaller pistons.

[nhusa]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I hear the term short block? What is that? Is that for smaller pistons.

Not smaller pistons it is for shorter rods.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I hear the term short block? What is that? Is that for smaller pistons.

Short block is the main block of the engine with it's parts, but not the head, manifolds, carb, water pump, oil pan, etc.

It usually means the block with crank, pistons, rings, and rods installed, along with the valves, lifters, springs and camshaft along and the timing gears.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I hear the term short block? What is that? Is that for smaller pistons.

this link shows what AER includes in a short vs long block
http://antiqueenginerebuilding.com/MODELA.html

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I hear the term short block? What is that? Is that for smaller pistons.

Yaw, 4" diam smaller pistons !
SHORT BLOCK= block ,pistons,rods, crank, cam, crank/cam gears and valve train...all assembled ready for add ons. Now , if you ask about valve train...well !

[FrankWest]

I greatly appreciate everything you guys have done for me! My oil pan is so badly clogged that even new oil i added won't drain out the oil pand drain hole. I have the pan supported by a jack and i know i will have a mess when that pan drops. to be so badly plugged I am scared what i will find when i drop the pan?? I will let you know.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I greatly appreciate everything you guys have done for me! My oil pan is so badly clogged that even new oil i added won't drain out the oil pand drain hole. I have the pan supported by a jack and i know i will have a mess when that pan drops. to be so badly plugged I am scared what i will find when i drop the pan?? I will let you know.

Hey Frank,
YOU should be scared ! When you see what is 'lurking' in there, you will wish that you had left it alone,eh ! Yeah, I have a few like that, but the 'best' one was the 30 pan with about a gallon of 'stuff' the consistency of tar. And, mixed in with the tar like substance...was pieces of piston/rings and other metal scrapings. One chunk of piston top was effectively blocking the drain. At least you've been properly warned, now you should be properly prepared, i.e.- have pan/rags under there to sop up what runs off of you ! Boy , that 'stuff' has a sweet aroma of its own !!

[J Franklin]

Put a container under the pan and run a bent wire through the drain hole up into the sludge, it should start it coming out.

[Purdy Swoft]

My thoughts exactly !!! I've seen engines where the oil wouldn't drain out the drain plug hole but never a time that a little digging around in the drain hole with a wire or small screwdriver wouldn't get the oil to begin draining .

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

My thoughts exactly !!! I've seen engines where the oil wouldn't drain out the drain plug hole but never a time that a little digging around in the drain hole with a wire or small screwdriver wouldn't get the oil to begin draining .

When I original had the front of the car up on stands and I was adding MMO so that I could hand crank the engine. The MMO flowed out of the Flywheel cotter pin? That pan must be badly impacted. I hope not with trantualas and rattlesnakes. I will try tomorrow with a bendable wire to get the excess oil out. So far no sucess with thin ice picks and dental tools.
Anyway, the pan get dropped tomorrow...I hope I survive!