The Ford Barn

OldDad · 09-21-2012, 01:34 AM

Just posted an old letter my father (OldDad) wrote back in '52 in which he mentions fixing a blown-off flathead bell housing (for $35.00!).

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83657

So, thought I would post some pictures of a block I have that dates back to those days, and see if any of you guys think this is at all feasible. This thing came out of an old cracker box racing boat, and somebody cut the bell housing off for that use.

The crime here is that the block is ported and relieved, has big valves, a Harman & Collins V SU cam (a "super" cam, I assume? Not a good street cam, but interesting nonetheless!) and 3 5/16" bore. There is also a beefed-up center main cap. I've been crying over this thing for years, and the funny thing is that the old man always told me "don't even think about it -- can't fix it." Yet now I find this letter he wrote to my uncle back when, in which he says it's no problem! Maybe he thought it would be weak and I'd throw a clutch through it and cut my feet off, I don't know.

These pics are not the greatest, but I know you guys will know what you're looking at anyway.

So, is this boat engine a boat anchor, or what?

Terry,OH · 09-21-2012, 05:08 AM

My dad owned a small welding shop. One day the pressure plate exploded in my 40 with an olds engine. The PP broke the casting of the bell housing into many small and large hunks. as well as damage to the mounting of the 4-speed and trans adapter. He welded it all together and I never had a problem. seems your weld job may be a bit easier since you do not have as many pieces. Alignment and spacing will be your key issues.

PeteVS · 09-21-2012, 06:17 AM

A while ago, there was a post with an old Hot Rod Magazine article about welding a new bell housing on a highly modified flat head that had suffered a blown flywheel. As I recall, they cut the back end of the block nice and flat and sawed the bell housing off a junker block to graft on.

Fordors · 09-21-2012, 08:11 AM

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ine#post216099

Here's the thread on the bell housing repair.

Pete · 09-21-2012, 12:21 PM

That bell housing was NOT blown off. It was machined off to mount the engine against a motor plate in a circle track car. Common practice of the day.
I did many.

OldDad · 09-21-2012, 06:47 PM

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Yes, this bell housing was not blown off, that's me causing confusion with the one in the letter I posted. Tt was cut off, and very cleanly. That's very interesting about the motor plate in a circle track car, Pete! I'd love to see a picture of that setup, if anybody has one. The story I heard was that it was cut off for use in a racing boat, but you know how that kind of thing goes. Your idea makes more sense to me.

I have a junker block, and always thought this could be fixed with some careful measurement and a fixture to weld it up in.

Hah, thanks for that link to the old thread about fixing a bell housing, Fordors! I vaguely remembered that one -- should have pulled that up again and posted my miserable pictures there! Brain not working like it used to, I guess.

So, does anybody have any idea who might do this kind of work in the Southern California area?

Pete · 09-21-2012, 07:02 PM

A motor plate for a boat would have been identical except for the mounting ears.I think you shouild look into using a plate on the block as is. No welding involved.Cut the bell stub back to the same dimension as an 8ba block, drill and mount a plate and bolt a scatter shield behind that. Similar to the enclosed pics.

PeteVS · 09-21-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

That bell housing was NOT blown off. It was machined off to mount the engine against a motor plate in a circle track car. Common practice of the day.
I did many.

So, then how did the plate get bolted to the engine? Just the two holes for the chatter rods?

Pete · 09-21-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteVS

So, then how did the plate get bolted to the engine? Just the two holes for the chatter rods?

Drill and tap holes around the flange.

OldDad · 09-21-2012, 11:44 PM

Boy, I'm making a mess here with two threads on the same topic, but here goes. Sounds like a much simpler and less expensive approach, Pete. The block as it currently stands has only the two holes for the chatter rods. In thinking about it, the thing did have crude block-off plates over the water pump openings with a couple of pipe elbows with nipples screwed into them when we got it, so who knows, and I guess it doesn't much matter at this point.

Anyway, I've attached an enlargement of the first photo you sent, which shows the bell housing area. I see what looks like a plate ahead of the flywheel. Or are you just trying to show me the depth of the cut? My experience is with 59a and earlier street flatheads, so this is all news to me. I can see how you might attach a plate to the block, and then perhaps mount a cut down 8BA bell housing or something similar to that, but I guess I'm not getting it here. Wouldn't be the first time!

Pete · 09-22-2012, 12:42 AM

You are just looking at the edge of the flywheel ahead of the ring gear. There is no plate in the pic. In my case here the plate was behind the flange on the scatter shield. In your case the plate would be right against the block and bell housing behind. You would put the block in a lathe with a mainline bar clamped in the mainline and machine the flange back to what the dimension is on an 8ba block plus .250. After you get the 1/4 in. plate installed, the bell housing will bolt on in the stock fore and aft location but will have to be dialed in and doweled before drilling and tapping several screws around the flange. All of this is not going to be cheap but most likely cheaper than welding and having to machine the flange square afterward anyway.

OldDad · 09-22-2012, 01:58 AM

OK, the plus .250 was the missing link there. I'm no machinist, but grew up around it, so I've got you now. I think you have the right idea here, and I'd rather trust a machinist to get this right than have to find both a machinist and a welder to do this properly. I'd trust Duffy on the welding, but that was then and this is now!

Cost is in relation to the cost of machining a similar block, and I would hope that ratio would work at least somewhat in my favor. Many thanks for your detailed explanation!

09-21-2012, 01:34 AM	#1
OldDad Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 153	Invisible Bell Housing Just posted an old letter my father (OldDad) wrote back in '52 in which he mentions fixing a blown-off flathead bell housing (for $35.00!). https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83657 So, thought I would post some pictures of a block I have that dates back to those days, and see if any of you guys think this is at all feasible. This thing came out of an old cracker box racing boat, and somebody cut the bell housing off for that use. The crime here is that the block is ported and relieved, has big valves, a Harman & Collins V SU cam (a "super" cam, I assume? Not a good street cam, but interesting nonetheless!) and 3 5/16" bore. There is also a beefed-up center main cap. I've been crying over this thing for years, and the funny thing is that the old man always told me "don't even think about it -- can't fix it." Yet now I find this letter he wrote to my uncle back when, in which he says it's no problem! Maybe he thought it would be weak and I'd throw a clutch through it and cut my feet off, I don't know. These pics are not the greatest, but I know you guys will know what you're looking at anyway. So, is this boat engine a boat anchor, or what?

09-21-2012, 05:08 AM	#2
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 5,187	Re: Invisible Bell Housing My dad owned a small welding shop. One day the pressure plate exploded in my 40 with an olds engine. The PP broke the casting of the bell housing into many small and large hunks. as well as damage to the mounting of the 4-speed and trans adapter. He welded it all together and I never had a problem. seems your weld job may be a bit easier since you do not have as many pieces. Alignment and spacing will be your key issues.

09-21-2012, 06:17 AM	#3
PeteVS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: FP, NJ Posts: 2,811	Re: Invisible Bell Housing A while ago, there was a post with an old Hot Rod Magazine article about welding a new bell housing on a highly modified flat head that had suffered a blown flywheel. As I recall, they cut the back end of the block nice and flat and sawed the bell housing off a junker block to graft on. __________________ Don't never get rid of nuthin!

09-21-2012, 08:11 AM	#4
Fordors Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orland Park,IL Posts: 1,408	Re: Invisible Bell Housing https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ine#post216099 Here's the thread on the bell housing repair.

09-21-2012, 12:21 PM	#5
Pete BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,423	Re: Invisible Bell Housing That bell housing was NOT blown off. It was machined off to mount the engine against a motor plate in a circle track car. Common practice of the day. I did many.

09-21-2012, 06:47 PM	#6
OldDad Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 153	Re: Invisible Bell Housing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yes, this bell housing was not blown off, that's me causing confusion with the one in the letter I posted. Tt was cut off, and very cleanly. That's very interesting about the motor plate in a circle track car, Pete! I'd love to see a picture of that setup, if anybody has one. The story I heard was that it was cut off for use in a racing boat, but you know how that kind of thing goes. Your idea makes more sense to me. I have a junker block, and always thought this could be fixed with some careful measurement and a fixture to weld it up in. Hah, thanks for that link to the old thread about fixing a bell housing, Fordors! I vaguely remembered that one -- should have pulled that up again and posted my miserable pictures there! Brain not working like it used to, I guess. So, does anybody have any idea who might do this kind of work in the Southern California area?

09-21-2012, 11:44 PM	#10
OldDad Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 153	Re: Invisible Bell Housing Boy, I'm making a mess here with two threads on the same topic, but here goes. Sounds like a much simpler and less expensive approach, Pete. The block as it currently stands has only the two holes for the chatter rods. In thinking about it, the thing did have crude block-off plates over the water pump openings with a couple of pipe elbows with nipples screwed into them when we got it, so who knows, and I guess it doesn't much matter at this point. Anyway, I've attached an enlargement of the first photo you sent, which shows the bell housing area. I see what looks like a plate ahead of the flywheel. Or are you just trying to show me the depth of the cut? My experience is with 59a and earlier street flatheads, so this is all news to me. I can see how you might attach a plate to the block, and then perhaps mount a cut down 8BA bell housing or something similar to that, but I guess I'm not getting it here. Wouldn't be the first time!

09-22-2012, 12:42 AM	#11
Pete BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wa. Posts: 5,423	Re: Invisible Bell Housing You are just looking at the edge of the flywheel ahead of the ring gear. There is no plate in the pic. In my case here the plate was behind the flange on the scatter shield. In your case the plate would be right against the block and bell housing behind. You would put the block in a lathe with a mainline bar clamped in the mainline and machine the flange back to what the dimension is on an 8ba block plus .250. After you get the 1/4 in. plate installed, the bell housing will bolt on in the stock fore and aft location but will have to be dialed in and doweled before drilling and tapping several screws around the flange. All of this is not going to be cheap but most likely cheaper than welding and having to machine the flange square afterward anyway.

09-22-2012, 01:58 AM	#12
OldDad Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 153	Re: Invisible Bell Housing OK, the plus .250 was the missing link there. I'm no machinist, but grew up around it, so I've got you now. I think you have the right idea here, and I'd rather trust a machinist to get this right than have to find both a machinist and a welder to do this properly. I'd trust Duffy on the welding, but that was then and this is now! Cost is in relation to the cost of machining a similar block, and I would hope that ratio would work at least somewhat in my favor. Many thanks for your detailed explanation!