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Old 04-16-2012, 12:15 PM   #1
foxfire42
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Default Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

My engine turns over very slowly when trying to start it. I checked the connections and they seem to be tight with no corrosion. My battery is fully charged (or was for awhile...LOL). It will turn over slow then get a burst then slow down again. On occasion the starter drive will disengage and spin out. I need to get the starter to turn faster. Could it be an inadequate ground between the motor and frame? What else can I check? the engine is a new rebuid as well as the starter (by unknown).

I followed most all the suggestions (if tools were avalible) including reseting the timing. It could have been a combination of timing and grounding. With the timing on target I bonded the frame with a temporary cable to the engine (#4) Now it turns over and the engine fires right up. The challenge now will be to fix it right. At least I can take it on `test runs and work on the other problems which I will be posting. This is a GREAT forum. I feel I have a world of mechanics at my fingertips. THANKS AGAIN....Barb

New question see post #13

Last edited by foxfire42; 04-17-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

This below is assuming you have used a crank to manually turn the engine and it is free of any excessive stiffness or mechanical issues. I usually start by feeling the starter wire just after a cranking episode and see how hot. Resistance equals heat.

One other thing is that grounds are our biggest headache here. Often time folks complain about slow starting and it traces back to over-restored surfaces such as the area on the flywheel housing where the starter is mounted being painted so the starter cannot obtain a good ground connection. The same happens getting the ground from the frame over to the engine. A short-term test would be to run a jumper lead from the ground post on the battery terminal over to a bolt on the transmission cover (shift tower) bolt to see if this helps anything. Maybe use a set of good--quality jumper cables and use a starter attaching bolt as one ground and then clamp the other end of the cables to the ground post on the batter to see if it helps anything.

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Old 04-16-2012, 01:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

If you know the starter and battery are truly good, be sure that you are using a 6 volt cable from the battery to starter and not a 12 volt cable. We had a similar sounding starter problem for years and I finally put on a 6 volt cable and the starter turnd the engine over fast. Finally fixed.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:17 PM   #4
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

"QUICK" ground test: Key off, clip test light to gearshift, put pointy probe to top of battery ground post (+), crank starter for 5 seconds--------results: light on = poor grounding----light off = good grounding. Bill W.
(Play around & experiment with your test light, it can be "man's best friend" in quick testing of many electrical problems!)
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

31 Tudor said it right. 6 volt systems need a larger or beefer cable. I put a 1/0 cables on my 54 chevy and it helped alot. Plus good clean grounds.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

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Also if the starter cable is older, I’ve seen corrosion inside the insulation, down inside even, that caused heat and resistance just as Brent and the others have said. Another quick check is to take the starter switch apart on the starter and make sure the two contacts are clean and redress them with a Smooth file or 150 grit paper.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

Age of the battery? May charge up but not enough cranking amps. 6 volt battery life span approx 3yrs. unless you keep a maintainer on it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

Another idea: Is your timing too advanced? Your starter could be working against a firing cylinder, or even bucking back as it fires. This gets even worse with a high compression head.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

Any chance of a bent starter shaft? Or, the ring gear isn't completely on the flywheel?
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:57 PM   #10
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

Worn starter bushings may allow armature to touch field retainer plates causing shorting and excessive amperage draw. Inexpensive induction ammeters that just lay against the cables are a great diagnostic tool. Available in a couple of sizes. Small one can test charging output, or current draw to anything on the car. Bill W.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

I was going to mention the timing also, but Ray beat me to it. Just try cranking with the key OFF and if it cranks faster then your timing is too advanced.

Easy check for bad spots as Brent said is to feel all connections after several seconds of cranking. A poor connection will be hot.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover

Check the starter bolts. If one is not a real starter bolt/correct length it will drag on the flywheel,or it does not have a lock washer.It can drag a little or can somtimes lock the engine up. Just a thought as you said it was a new install.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED

So, now that it's working if only for test driving, how do I solve the bonding more correctly? With the rubber pad set on the rear motor mounts insulating the motor from the frame where does adequate bonding of the frame and motr occure?
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

What I did with mine is attach a cable to the shifter tower, use a brand new 6V battery cable and she works fine. The ground is accomplished through the bolts from the motor mounts back to the battery. Just make sure there is no corrosion on the battery terminal or any grounding points.

Mike
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:50 PM   #15
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1930artdeco View Post
What I did with mine is attach a cable to the shifter tower, use a brand new 6V battery cable and she works fine. The ground is accomplished through the bolts from the motor mounts back to the battery. Just make sure there is no corrosion on the battery terminal or any grounding points.

Mike
Mike, the problem is that I think Barb's vehicle is probably a fine-point car where running that cable is not realy an option.

Barb, originally the engine pans were one of the major areas of grounding came from. That followed by the the ground flowing through the frame rails to the crossmembers, and traveling from there through the springs down through the spring hangers (shackles) through the axles up the radius rods (and torque tube) into the transmission, and into the flywheel housing and into the starter. <whew> The problem is again that we generally over-restore by over-painting all these contact areas thus eliminating the ability for electricity to flow. Your mission is to figure out a way to get the current to start flowing again.
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Last edited by BRENT in 10-uh-C; 04-17-2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

I beieve the engine pans were powder coated . I have a nice set of painted originals on the shelf up in WA that would be an easy switch as long as I make sure the paint is "missing" at the bolt locations. That hardly seems like enough contact from frame to engine to increase DC flow. Paint is sure the enemy in this situation. Maybe I should just suck it up and drop the rear end out of the frame and make sure I can get good spring to frame connection. That may be the ultimate solution. SIGH.....

Last edited by foxfire42; 04-17-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

I'm not quite clear on what you did. Are you still using the original battery to center cross member ground strap and simply added a SEPARATE strap to bridge from the engine to elsewhere on the frame?
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

might it be possible to sneak a wide strip of copper between the motor mount rubber and the frame contacting both the mount and frame? By bending it around the rubber at the top, it would be concealed inside the frame and not visible. Clean all the frame and mount contact points as well as where the engine bolts seat on the mount. That should provide a good bond. You could use dielectric grease to prevent rust in there.
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

I've never worried about an engine ground and never had a problem with the stock setup. If the engine doesn't have a good ground, one path can be through the fuel line, so if that gets HOT, now you know why. Another path can be through bearings, and that's not good either. When I worked at the GM dealership I had to replace the rear tranny bearing on a 70's automatic due to that being the ground path for the engine.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: Slow engine turnover TEMPORARILY SOLVED I Have a new ?

Marco, I crimped ends on a heavy stranded copper wire and ran it from a bolt on the starter to the bolt securing the positive battery cable to the crossmember. Apparently it was just what the starter needed at least for now.
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