Adjusting Flathead Ted Brakes vs. Stock Brakes

[Pilotdave]

I've installed Flathead Ted's brake system at all 4 corners.

I'm looking for information about adjusting the Flathead Ted brakes. I'm following the instructions from Model A Times. For instance, these mention turning in the adjusting bolts on the front brakes until the brakes start to drag, adjusting to get the brakes to lock up, and adjusting to eliminate pull.

Do these instructions (and those for the rear brakes) replace the process described in Les Andrew's book? I'm guessing that this is so, but I would love to have this confirmed by someone who's actually done the conversion.

Thanks much.

[jerry shook]

Adjust like instructions say, not like original brakes . I have installed 3 sets and they work like modern brakes.

[Dick Deegan]

I agree with Jerry. You want the front brakes to come on first, not like the original brakes. I also made sure that the wheels turned freely without drag. I found that with drag the brakes were too aggressive. You will love these brakes!!

Dick

[Tom Endy]

I agree, with Flathead's syetem the fronts should come in first. Adjust them 60\40 favoring the fronts. Adjust the shoes in until the shoes just touch the drums. This way you can tell if the shop turned the drums round, arced the shoes correctly, and the installer centered them correctly. Then back them off until they do not drag.

Tom Endy

[Pilotdave]

Thanks to all of you....I really appreciate the help.

One part confuses me - easily done these days. That is the idea of centering the shoes. The installation instructions call for locking up the drum with the adjusting screw with the nut on the wedge bolt finger tight, thereby allowing the new centering plate to set the shoe-to-drum distance at the bottom of the shoes. Then the nut on the wedge bolt is tightened to 40 ft-lbs. This happens with the roller/pin combination sitting in the half-moon cut-out in the centering plate. Given all this, how does one center the front shoes? The only way I can think of would be to regrind the half-moons to move the shoes slightly - doesn't seem like a really good idea. What am I missing?

[jerry shook]

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Dave. When you set like the instructions say. It does the centering when you tighten the wedge nut. Then adj your brakes by the instruction. They will work but get better as you drive and use them. Remember every thing else must be in good working condition.

[John LaVoy]

Just so you know Les Andrews wrote the article in the Model A Times regarding the Flathead Ted brake floaters.

[Pilotdave]

Thanks, Jerry. I was guessing that this was the case. I'm going to test drive the car this afternoon and work on getting the adjuster screws set properly per the instructions.

Will following the Model A Times version of the instructions automatically result in the 60/40 braking action mentioned in Tom's post? (Assuming, of course, that the braking system is otherwise set up properly.)

John - interesting that Les wrote those instructions. I'm trying to follow them closely but find the description of the final adjusting process a little vague - unlike his very explicit instructions for adjusting stock brakes. Maybe it's because one adjusts Flathead Ted's by driving the car and tweaking things rather than using a couple of tools in the shop in one session.

[1931 flamingo]

Pilotdave: Flathead ted posts regularly on the EV8 forum. He may have some suggestions/updates, but will answer any question you might have. I also thought there was a video available someplace but that might be for regular A brakes. Hope this helps.
Paul in CT

[Pilotdave]

Thanks, Paul. I'll take a look on the V8 Forum....never been on it.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

I can see adjusting the fronts so they engage more early than the rears, but the 60/40 ratio is built into the system by the different length of the center cross shaft arms. I doubt you can adjust the fronts to 60% given that the arm length applies more force to the rears. I bet the best you could do is 50/50.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

I can see adjusting the fronts so they engage more early than the rears, but the 60/40 ratio is built into the system by the different length of the center cross shaft arms. I doubt you can adjust the fronts to 60% given that the arm length applies more force to the rears. I bet the best you could do is 50/50.

Exactly! Folks don't seem to understand the geometry. You can indeed make the fronts come on quicker and carry more of the load but in doing so you are actually reducing the function of the rear brakes. To put it in simpler terms, if you attempt to adjust the brakes to 60/40 (front/rear) you actually get something like 50/35 so you are losing some braking capability and stiffening the pedal in the process.

[Pilotdave]

Very interesting, Pat and Marcos.

So.....why not follow the stock brake adjusting approach (Andrews Vol I) with the Flathead Ted floating brakes? I'm not enthused about having the front brakes lock up before the rears....wouldn't that invite directional instability? I am going to try the stock approach first and see if I like that outcome.

[Tom Endy]

I would ask Flathead. It is his design and his recommendation.

Tom Endy

[Frank Miller]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the locking up refer to the status of the wheels while being adjusted when the cars is jacked up? On the road would be different due to the front wheels handling the majority of the weight?

[Pilotdave]

Tom, I will do some research on the road this afternoon and also try to reach Flathead Ted.

Frank, I don't think so. Here is step 27 (adjusting front brakes) from the Andrews version of the instructions:

"Road test the brakes. The brakes should start to react with about 3/4” of brake pedal
movement. At about 10 mph apply full brake pedal. The car may pull to one side. Drive
slowly for about 5 miles and softly work the brakes. This will self center the brake shoes.
If the brakes will not lock up, return to the garage and slightly tighten the adjusters, only
1/4 turn at a time. Spin the wheels to ensure there is little or no drag. Road test again with slow stops and a full pedal stop. Full lockup should occur at no more than 1/2 pedal travel. If car pulls to one side, tighten the opposite brake adjuster slightly."

I'm reading this to say that I should be able to lock up the front brakes on the road...yes?

Will report back.