Title troubles in Florida

[MB30Roadster]

Tried to title my 30 Roadster and was told by the Florida DMV that they would not accept a Bill of Sale. According to them the car had to be titled by the seller and then transferred to me or I had to get a judge to issue a declaration of judgement releasing the car to me. This is the first time I have ever been told that a bill of sale was not acceptable. Anyone else ever had this experience? Hate to spend untold dollars on legal action....anyone want to buy a Roadster!

[5window]

Call AAA and ask them the regs. Look up the Florida DMV regulations on line. Sorry you are having a problem but only fellow Floridians can help and what someone in Florida had happen 10 years ago really isn't relevant.

Is you car stock and you're registering it as a passenger car or antique? Maybe you can register it in a different category and not need the title.

Here's a place to start:http://www.dmvflorida.org/car-registration.shtml

Here's how you apply for a title without a registration: http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/forms/BTR/82040.pdf

Google can be your friend

[Mike V. Florida]

Find another office and bring the form. Note that;

"THIS SECTION REQUIRES A PHYSICAL INSPECTION AND A VERIFICATION OF THE VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (VIN)

(OR THE MOTOR NUMBER FOR MOTOR VEHICLES MANUFACTURED
PRIOR TO 1955) OF THE MOTOR VEHICLE DESCRIBED ON THIS FORM BY A LICENSED DEALER, FLORIDA NOTARY PUBLIC, POLICE OFFICER, OR FLORIDA DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES

EMPLOYEE OR TAX COLLECTOR EMPLOYEE"

Once that is done get a horseless carrage plate, pay once and it's good for as long as you own the car.

[Richard Wilson]

Bill of Sale is a pretty useless document in my opinion. NC has a "bonded title" (can be very expensive to get) for vintage cars without legal title paperwork. Then you have to worry the rest of your life if the car's serial number was reported stolen some time in it's life and the information comes up in a state computer some where.

Several years ago, Old Cars Weekly Newspaper reported that a NC man had a Model A returned to him from California that he had reported stolen thirty years prior.

[Aok]

Title rules are different in every state here in NJ trying to title a car for anything but a salvage title is such a headache that I will not buy anything that I plan to put on the road without a title. The only exception I know of is NY has a transferable reregistration that works like a title.
Buying a vehicle with a bill of sale in any state that issues titles is foolish as there is a reason the seller did not get a title.

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Aok

Buying a vehicle with a bill of sale in any state that issues titles is foolish as there is a reason the seller did not get a title.

There are states where they don't issue titles to cars as old as ours.

As an example Vermont;

"Vermont now titles all vehicles fifteen (15) years old or newer (based on calendar year)."

Older than 15 years no title is issued.

[desotoguy]

A Bill of Sale alone does not prove the seller had any right or title to the vehicle. Think about it, anyone can sign a Bill of Sale. Here in SC a Bill of Sale must be accompanied by proof of ownership, Title, old Registration, or Court Order assigning title to seller.

[Aok]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

There are states where they don't issue titles to cars as old as ours.

As an example Vermont;

"Vermont now titles all vehicles fifteen (15) years old or newer (based on calendar year)."

Older than 15 years no title is issued.

I am aware that some states do not issue title for older vehicles was talking about buying non title in a state that issues titles and there has to be some way that the state proves legal ownership. Point I was trying to make is always put the responsibility on the seller to provide you with a document you can use to register your vehicle before handing over your money.

[bdentremont]

Originally Posted by Aok

... anything but a salvage title is such a headache that I will not buy anything that I plan to put on the road without a title. ...

Out of curiosity, what is the wrong with a salvage title on for an A? Does it cause future problems with insurance or sale? Since many A's were built from junk in fields or have decades of lost history, I can't imagine many future buyers would be turned off by a piece of paper saying that the car had been salvaged.

[Aok]

A salvage title while better then nothing usually sets up warning flags to a buyer that something out of the ordinary was involved with this vehicle. It could also include restored cars that were flood or fire damaged.

[Franchise_24]

Why did the previous owner not have a title when you bought it from him? I went through the same thing you did. I just bought a car from Michigan. I couldn't use just a bill of sale because they started titling cars in 1918 the Ohio DMV said. So my issue was there was no VIN # on the car. So I had to wait weeks for Michigan to come out to the owners house and put a new VIN on the car so it matched the title. Then I finally got to take it home. I was told they same thing you were that I would have to go through all this legal mumbo jumbo to get a title if I didn't have my ducks lined up. I decided to wait the extra weeks for Michigan to do their job. Now that I have it home, I just need to get it running properly so I can go get it inspected and get the title moved to my name. Good luck with everything, I know first hand what a pain it can be! What state did you buy it from. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that state doesn't notarize titles. If they do and the guy still doesn't have one I would be concerned.

[Jack '29 Sport Coupe]

All of the above advice is correct. A bill of sale doesn't prove squat doodle as far as ownership is concerned. As a Floridian, I can tell you that without a title you are screwed! Some of the DMV folks like to see a bill of sale in addition to a title, but in Florida it is only used for tax calculations. Only once has anyone in Florida asked me for a bill of sale----and then he grumbled a bit because I didn't have one, but he did complete the paperwork because I had a clean title. In Florida you can download a bill sale on the internet, and of course you can put anything on it that you want.
Goooooood luck!

Jack

[Ed in Maine]

As previously mentioned, many states do not issue titles for cars over a certain age. At the very least, go to the DMV and verify that the seller is on record as the owner of the car. If the car has not been registered know that you are taking a big risk in buying the car. Many years ago I purchased a 32 Ford Coupe that was in the possession of the restoration shop. The owner had turned the car over to the shop for payment for past work. Obviously, the car had not gone through a transaction at the DMV. I insisted that I meet with the original owner and see him sign the Bill of Sale. The state did not title old cars but I did end up with old registrations and a proper Bill of Sale. You must be diligent when you are so excited to find that perfect car! Ed

[5window]

In PA, a salvage title is used only on vehicles that are inoperable (parts cars) or unable to pass state inspection with out repairs that are greater than the value of the car. The cannot be driven. To do so, you'd need to get a rebuilt-salvage title, and jump through these hoops"

To register a vehicle with a salvage title, you'll need to show proof that it was satisfactorily repaired and then apply for a rebuilt-salvage title.

• Submit form MV-1 (Application for Certificate of Title), unless the Pennsylvania Certificate of Salvage is already in the name of the applicant. This form cannot be downloaded, but you can pick one up at any Driver License Center location.

• Submit either form MV-5 (it, also, cannot be downloaded) or an out-of-state certificate of salvage.

• Submit an Application for Reconstructed, Specially Constructed, or Modified Vehicle. Detailed instructions are included in the file.

• Send four color photos of the vehicle (front, back, and both sides).

• Attach a bill of sale or receipts for parts used to fix the vehicle. You can download, if needed, a generic bill of sale.

• Include form MV-41 to apply for a vehicle identification number plate (only if one is needed).

• Enclose all applicable fees ($22.50 for a title and $36 for registration).

Then you need to go through a very extensive advanced inspection process and they look VERY carefully at all the parts you put into the car.


For any state, the general rule would be don't buy a car without a clear title and don't spend a dime on a car until you are sure it will qualify for road use legally.

[ronn]

Just buy a title for a few hundred and you're on your way.

No worries and no pain in the ass gov to deal with.

[Franchise_24]

Originally Posted by ronn

Just buy a title for a few hundred and you're on your way.

No worries and no pain in the ass gov to deal with.

Buy a title? And how will that pass inspection when the VIN on the car and title have to match?

[H. L. Chauvin]

Can you find a very close friend who would be trusted by a good judge friend. Then explain your predicament to your very close friend & try that route -- DMV will grant the title when the judge approves.

[MB30Roadster]

Too late to look at what I should have done...just never thought that I would have this much trouble getting a title. Evidently I am misinterpreting the Florida DMV rules that state that a if the motor vehicle was not required to be titled then proof of ownership is a dealers bill of sale or original registrationfrom that state or a bill of sale from the seller to the purchaser. My bill of sale is from Alabama, and from what I have been told Alabama did not require a title on that era of automobiles. Anyway, lesson learned (the hard way), guess my ony recourse is to get a judge to sign the declaration of judgement (unless I find someone that wants it as is). Sad thing is I could have cut this car up and built a hotrod and titled that easier but, I sure do not want to do that to a nice solid car. Thanks to all for your thoughts.

[gibby]

A few years back, i purchased a 30 coupe here in Ct. and the origin of the car was unknown, as it had spent many years put away or in restoration. Looking back, i probably took a big chance. When i got the coupe home, it still had much to be done. Before starting to work on it myself, i wanted to get it registered. I purchased it with bill of sale only. In order to register it, i had to get our town state cop to come to my home and verify the vin # and sign a special form for the motor vehicle dept to be happy. I don't know if motor vehicles actually checks to see if it had ever been reported stolen. They didn't seem to care if the motor # was used or the actual vin #. It's been a few years now and all is well.

[Bob C]

This link has information on getting title in Florida.
This is one part:
(c) If the vehicle is an ancient or antique vehicle, as defined in s. 320.086, the application shall be
accompanied by a certificate of title; a bill of sale and a registration; or a bill of sale and an affidavit by
the owner defending the title from all claims. The bill of sale must contain a complete vehicle description
to include the vehicle identification or engine number, year make, color, selling price, and signatures of
the seller and purchaser.

Link
http://www.bipac.net/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_FL.pdf

Bob