The Ford Barn

ken-r-mer · 03-02-2025, 10:10 PM

Have access to buying a set of unused Kong flatheads, but owner has no specs on the heads and have not been able to find specs, such as compression ratio, head CC, etc...

tubman · 03-02-2025, 10:42 PM

We'll need a little more information. Are these the original Kong heads or the reproductions now being made? If original, are they for single or dual plugs? Pictures of both sides of the heads would be helpful.

petehoovie · 03-03-2025, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken-r-mer

Have access to buying a set of unused Kong flatheads, but owner has no specs on the heads and have not been able to find specs, such as compression ratio, head CC, etc...

Look like these?

ken-r-mer · 03-03-2025, 06:47 AM

Single plugs and the plug holes are in the center of the block, not high up as in your pic. I'm running a Tom Roberts (TR) blower setup with a pr of the new Stromberg (BIG) 97's, so ideally looking for CC's in the mid to upper 70's and the CR in the low 8's max. The block I have has a 4" crank, 3 5/16" bore, Isky 77B (mild) cam, beefed up main caps and the block is relived. My alternative is Navarro blower heads. The Kong's show no signs of wear, head bolt seats are pristine as well as the underside. My guess is newer production run, as no signs of aluminum oxidation.

Ziggster · 03-03-2025, 08:30 AM

Weird. Never heard of Kong heads until this morning while watching a FB vid by H&H, and then come here to see a thread on them. lol!

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/14o...ibextid=wwXIfr

KiWinUS · 03-03-2025, 09:37 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Another Kong part. I will finish machining and fit to engine this week.

petehoovie · 03-03-2025, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Another Kong part. I will finish machining and fit to engine this week.

petehoovie · 03-03-2025, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken-r-mer

Single plugs and the plug holes are in the center of the block, not high up as in your pic. I'm running a Tom Roberts (TR) blower setup with a pr of the new Stromberg (BIG) 97's, so ideally looking for CC's in the mid to upper 70's and the CR in the low 8's max. The block I have has a 4" crank, 3 5/16" bore, Isky 77B (mild) cam, beefed up main caps and the block is relived. My alternative is Navarro blower heads. The Kong's show no signs of wear, head bolt seats are pristine as well as the underside. My guess is newer production run, as no signs of aluminum oxidation.

This?

ken-r-mer · 03-03-2025, 01:15 PM

Yes, but unpolished. Looking at them 1st hand the water jackets seem bigger than either Edelbrocks or even Offenhausers. My theory, more water, cooler running. An extra 1/2 gallon of water running through the system, the better. Also in additional research, a comment was made of recommending domed pistons.

Bored&Stroked · 03-04-2025, 09:22 AM

Unless you can show us the chambers - hard to comment on them. Just about ANY head can be made to work with a blower . . . it just takes some work on the transfer area, around the valves, etc.. You'll want a tight quench above the pistons, but the rest of the chamber can be opened up to drop the compression to what you're looking for.

tubman · 03-04-2025, 09:43 AM

I agree with B&S above. We need pictures of the combustion side. I have seen these with deep chambers (probably for "pop-up" pistons), while others appear to be more "conventional". It would make a huge difference. The deep chambers could have been an anomaly, but who knows?

Bored&Stroked · 03-04-2025, 11:07 AM

You might checkout the Edelbrock 1116 heads - they have the larger chambers. They may be temporarily out of stock, so check with Jegs/Summit and see if you can get them to lock-down on a date. You may want to call Edelbrock directly.

tubman · 03-04-2025, 11:32 AM

One thing I like about the Kong heads shown by the O/P is that they appears to have the spark plugs moved from over the exhaust valve (like Edmunds heads). This allows the use of extended tip plugs that I have found to be quite advantageous.

ken-r-mer · 03-06-2025, 10:27 AM

Ahhh, perseverance in research does produce results. Found a paperback handbook by Aussie Mike Davidson called "Flathead Fever" (1995). In it, he was running KONG heads on his salt flats '29 'T'. He lists 2 head types .525 (stock) w/76.2cc. and his modified one. The advantage of the heads was the ability to machine material away, even with a blower setup. His machining allowed .600 valve clearance increasing cc to 78.6 and with machining over the pistons for domed units brought it to 89.2cc.
Soooo, since I don't want to spend $5,000+ on modified heads, as Mike, on top of the stock head costs, I whittled it down to Edelbrock 1116 and .425 Offenhauser heads. Since the vast majority run the $910 Edelbrock heads, I opted to spend an extra $600 for the Offy .425 heads as on the cover of Joe Abbins "Flathead Ford V-8 Performance Handbook". Hey, if it's good for "Joe", it's good for my blown street fenderless '34 Ford Roadster w/ lakester exterior side exhaust pipes (grunting like Tim Allen). In the overall costs of my build (my one and only ground up build - my vision, my car), $600 is practically (gulp) insignificant. Besides, I told my only heir, he'll have to wait for his money.
Thanks all for your input.

ken-r-mer · 03-06-2025, 10:39 AM

Tubman, The original location is between the 2 valves at the furthest point away from the cylinder. So yes the plug tip may clear the 2 valves.The later head plug location is closer to over the piston. I read somewhere, the closer the plug is to being over the piston the less advance needed.

Bored&Stroked · 03-06-2025, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken-r-mer

Single plugs and the plug holes are in the center of the block, not high up as in your pic. I'm running a Tom Roberts (TR) blower setup with a pr of the new Stromberg (BIG) 97's, so ideally looking for CC's in the mid to upper 70's and the CR in the low 8's max. The block I have has a 4" crank, 3 5/16" bore, Isky 77B (mild) cam, beefed up main caps and the block is relived. My alternative is Navarro blower heads. The Kong's show no signs of wear, head bolt seats are pristine as well as the underside. My guess is newer production run, as no signs of aluminum oxidation.

I have one of Tom Robert's intakes - would love to see your overall blower setup. Did you machine a plate for the blower to mount on the intake, or are you running one of the Eaton style blowers with maybe a cast top? I'd like to see the belt setup as well - if you don't mind.

Are you running a 4-71 . . . or? Also, you might want to think about a bit more aggressive cam - as the blower will tame the cam anyway and you could use some more duration and lift (as least I know I would). You could run a L100 or a Potvin 3/8 or an Isky 1007B . . . all three would be good with your setup.

And as Ronnie noted, I'm a BIG FAN of a Potvin 3/8 grind . . . one of the best flathead cams for the street (blown or unblown) that there is!

ken-r-mer · 03-06-2025, 08:35 PM

Check out the Tom Roberts website(TR Designs). The TR blower setup I have uses a Magnuson 112 blower (6-7 psi) on a TR designed manifold. Add to that a dual Stromberg to a quad adapter made by Vintage Speed, a pair of Stromberg BIG 97's (250 cfm each), and a set of Patriot Lakester exhaust pipes with the option of internal mufflers and turn down tips (no under car exhaust for my baby - out the side only). The tops of the bird mouth scoops rise above the body front cowl. It is currently sitting on a mockup block next to the family room tv. Total height of the setup from the bare block surface to the tops of the scoops is 23". I'll try to post a pic in the next few days. Luckily, I bought it just before covid saving myself a thousand or so.
As far as cams go, looking at the Isky Max-1 with a .364 lift. The 425 Offenhauser head + .080 thick copper head gasket (.050 compressed thickness) creates a safe .475 valve height clearance. My thinking is it allows the air flow for the exhaust to flow under and over the valve at the full height open position to get the air out from the full perimeter of the valve (just a theory).

tubman · 03-06-2025, 09:24 PM

I run an Isky MAX-1 in an unblown 258" flathead with all of the usual "Hop-Up" parts. I find it a little too mild for my tastes. I'd listen to "B&S" in the post above yours about camshaft selection.

Ronnieroadster · 03-06-2025, 09:31 PM

Interesting build and theory as it pertains to flow for the exhaust under and over the valve at full lift. When it comes to a blown flathead the exhaust flow is of little concern. Even with the valve being shrouded around the outer edges by almost two thirds of the diameter due to the shape of the chamber. The important detail is getting the mixture in and thus the flow of the intake valve and port is where the attention needs to be.
The cam choice {especially blown} is also important the Potvin 3/8 super is a much better choice compared to any Isky profile. With the Potvin setting the cam intake C/L per the cam specs is another big factor in having an engine that's going to pull hard and also sound bitchin especially with the lakester style exhaust.
Been doing blown flatheads for a lifetime so the above details work really well.
Ronnieroadster

Bored&Stroked · 03-07-2025, 08:53 AM

Thanks Ronnie . . . as usual, we're in violent agreement! Hope all is well with you and Laura!

03-02-2025, 10:10 PM	#1
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Kong flatheads Have access to buying a set of unused Kong flatheads, but owner has no specs on the heads and have not been able to find specs, such as compression ratio, head CC, etc...

03-02-2025, 10:42 PM	#2
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: Kong flatheads We'll need a little more information. Are these the original Kong heads or the reproductions now being made? If original, are they for single or dual plugs? Pictures of both sides of the heads would be helpful.

03-03-2025, 06:47 AM	#4
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Re: Kong flatheads Single plugs and the plug holes are in the center of the block, not high up as in your pic. I'm running a Tom Roberts (TR) blower setup with a pr of the new Stromberg (BIG) 97's, so ideally looking for CC's in the mid to upper 70's and the CR in the low 8's max. The block I have has a 4" crank, 3 5/16" bore, Isky 77B (mild) cam, beefed up main caps and the block is relived. My alternative is Navarro blower heads. The Kong's show no signs of wear, head bolt seats are pristine as well as the underside. My guess is newer production run, as no signs of aluminum oxidation. Last edited by ken-r-mer; 03-03-2025 at 07:00 AM.

03-03-2025, 08:30 AM	#5
Ziggster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 992	Re: Kong flatheads Weird. Never heard of Kong heads until this morning while watching a FB vid by H&H, and then come here to see a thread on them. lol! https://www.facebook.com/share/v/14o...ibextid=wwXIfr

03-03-2025, 01:15 PM	#9
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Re: Kong flatheads Yes, but unpolished. Looking at them 1st hand the water jackets seem bigger than either Edelbrocks or even Offenhausers. My theory, more water, cooler running. An extra 1/2 gallon of water running through the system, the better. Also in additional research, a comment was made of recommending domed pistons. Last edited by ken-r-mer; 03-04-2025 at 08:16 AM.

03-04-2025, 09:22 AM	#10
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,723	Re: Kong flatheads Unless you can show us the chambers - hard to comment on them. Just about ANY head can be made to work with a blower . . . it just takes some work on the transfer area, around the valves, etc.. You'll want a tight quench above the pistons, but the rest of the chamber can be opened up to drop the compression to what you're looking for.

03-04-2025, 09:43 AM	#11
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: Kong flatheads I agree with B&S above. We need pictures of the combustion side. I have seen these with deep chambers (probably for "pop-up" pistons), while others appear to be more "conventional". It would make a huge difference. The deep chambers could have been an anomaly, but who knows?

03-04-2025, 11:07 AM	#12
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,723	Re: Kong flatheads You might checkout the Edelbrock 1116 heads - they have the larger chambers. They may be temporarily out of stock, so check with Jegs/Summit and see if you can get them to lock-down on a date. You may want to call Edelbrock directly.

03-04-2025, 11:32 AM	#13
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: Kong flatheads One thing I like about the Kong heads shown by the O/P is that they appears to have the spark plugs moved from over the exhaust valve (like Edmunds heads). This allows the use of extended tip plugs that I have found to be quite advantageous.

03-06-2025, 10:27 AM	#14
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Re: Kong flatheads Ahhh, perseverance in research does produce results. Found a paperback handbook by Aussie Mike Davidson called "Flathead Fever" (1995). In it, he was running KONG heads on his salt flats '29 'T'. He lists 2 head types .525 (stock) w/76.2cc. and his modified one. The advantage of the heads was the ability to machine material away, even with a blower setup. His machining allowed .600 valve clearance increasing cc to 78.6 and with machining over the pistons for domed units brought it to 89.2cc. Soooo, since I don't want to spend $5,000+ on modified heads, as Mike, on top of the stock head costs, I whittled it down to Edelbrock 1116 and .425 Offenhauser heads. Since the vast majority run the $910 Edelbrock heads, I opted to spend an extra $600 for the Offy .425 heads as on the cover of Joe Abbins "Flathead Ford V-8 Performance Handbook". Hey, if it's good for "Joe", it's good for my blown street fenderless '34 Ford Roadster w/ lakester exterior side exhaust pipes (grunting like Tim Allen). In the overall costs of my build (my one and only ground up build - my vision, my car), $600 is practically (gulp) insignificant. Besides, I told my only heir, he'll have to wait for his money. Thanks all for your input. Last edited by ken-r-mer; 03-06-2025 at 11:22 AM.

03-06-2025, 10:39 AM	#15
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Re: Kong flatheads Tubman, The original location is between the 2 valves at the furthest point away from the cylinder. So yes the plug tip may clear the 2 valves.The later head plug location is closer to over the piston. I read somewhere, the closer the plug is to being over the piston the less advance needed.

03-06-2025, 08:35 PM	#17
ken-r-mer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 142	Re: Kong flatheads Check out the Tom Roberts website(TR Designs). The TR blower setup I have uses a Magnuson 112 blower (6-7 psi) on a TR designed manifold. Add to that a dual Stromberg to a quad adapter made by Vintage Speed, a pair of Stromberg BIG 97's (250 cfm each), and a set of Patriot Lakester exhaust pipes with the option of internal mufflers and turn down tips (no under car exhaust for my baby - out the side only). The tops of the bird mouth scoops rise above the body front cowl. It is currently sitting on a mockup block next to the family room tv. Total height of the setup from the bare block surface to the tops of the scoops is 23". I'll try to post a pic in the next few days. Luckily, I bought it just before covid saving myself a thousand or so. As far as cams go, looking at the Isky Max-1 with a .364 lift. The 425 Offenhauser head + .080 thick copper head gasket (.050 compressed thickness) creates a safe .475 valve height clearance. My thinking is it allows the air flow for the exhaust to flow under and over the valve at the full height open position to get the air out from the full perimeter of the valve (just a theory). Last edited by ken-r-mer; 03-06-2025 at 08:57 PM.

03-06-2025, 09:24 PM	#18
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 11,629	Re: Kong flatheads I run an Isky MAX-1 in an unblown 258" flathead with all of the usual "Hop-Up" parts. I find it a little too mild for my tastes. I'd listen to "B&S" in the post above yours about camshaft selection.

03-06-2025, 09:31 PM	#19
Ronnieroadster Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: East Coast in CT Posts: 1,697	Re: Kong flatheads Interesting build and theory as it pertains to flow for the exhaust under and over the valve at full lift. When it comes to a blown flathead the exhaust flow is of little concern. Even with the valve being shrouded around the outer edges by almost two thirds of the diameter due to the shape of the chamber. The important detail is getting the mixture in and thus the flow of the intake valve and port is where the attention needs to be. The cam choice {especially blown} is also important the Potvin 3/8 super is a much better choice compared to any Isky profile. With the Potvin setting the cam intake C/L per the cam specs is another big factor in having an engine that's going to pull hard and also sound bitchin especially with the lakester style exhaust. Been doing blown flatheads for a lifetime so the above details work really well. Ronnieroadster __________________ I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead, Focus and Finish "Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 First Ford flathead roadster to run 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats setting the record August 7th 2021 at 205.744 MPH reset the record in 2024 to 211.830 running to mile four. Top speed 2024 mile five 220.672 exit speed 221.587

03-07-2025, 08:53 AM	#20
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,723	Re: Kong flatheads Thanks Ronnie . . . as usual, we're in violent agreement! Hope all is well with you and Laura!