32 5W body work issues

[3W Hank]

My project was started out to find a 32 3W and I looked in Sweden but at that time no car or body was to find plus I heard cars sold was rather expensive.
I wanted to set out my style so a complete car did feel the wrong way ( maybe a big mistake…
One at Hamb in Alabama had a body with frame, 25 louver hood, grille etc at 40K and really a disaster.
I did look over a Brookville body both complete or in parts ( as people warned me on.
I found a 3W in LA and again a 25 louver hood and grille but no frame and it was 35K and friend had a look when he was there, it was no floor and in that time after cowid it was hard get freight and it was expensive so I said no.
I decided to go for a new 28 roadster instead as I had a 32 frame and some other parts.
After a car meet in Sweden I saw both a Henry 28 and a new made 28 body and I realized I can’t has a new body, so I called them and got back my deposit.
Then a 5W showed up close to me. It was an old race car from Texas so it came via eBay to Sweden around 15-20 years ago and it was rust-free but floor was new. The section on roof hole had a cutted out edge ( for a alu plate ) and the firewall had the std end section rim cutted off as they used a alu plate.
It was chopped ugly but it’s nice at 3”.
Owner here bought a new PU floor/subframe and find the firewall rim end part and it went to a guy that installed the floor.
It took me 6 month to get this deal done.
I realized when car came to me it was no door gap and the old cut work would be hard to find a guy that can fix it.
Body was rather expensive but close ( 20 minutes’ drive ) but it was rust free Henry and even if I wanted a Henry floor it was nice see a fresh floor in it. It had doors and trunk, firewall, window garnish, seat frame, dash etc was included.
Now after some years gone thru I collected all speed parts I did like to use so I’m practically there now to get the body done.
One guy promise me to help out ( waited 1 year ) walked away but at +70 I can’t force him do it and another is anyway 1.5 years away.
Most say this is a very nice body, but one told me it’s a terrible body and worse he ever seen and mean it’s just too far off vs the old bad works so it should take him at least 700 hours and he needed split up the whole body in parts (?)
Well, see it from that side, it was more easy for me get an old complete car ( early Ca hotrod ) or a Henry std 32 coupe.

Don’t know how to do this but it seems to ’much’ for 1 guy handle this.
Me, I can’t do it, so to sell it ?

But an idea.
It’s a very ugly cut/weld in roof but the floor is tight in the end of body but they needed get the holes wider at rear bolt it to frame.
If ( rear ) if the body goes back for door gap will be Ok.
The firewall is now located correct in front to body but the subrail parts/holes don’t match to the frame holes.
It might be no big deal get new holes.
I can’t remove floor as it nice installed in the big picture and if I drill all weld spot up and remove the floor it will not be nice.
But look at picture of subrail, driver side gap is half vs on picture passenger side (?) I wonder how could that be.

So my idea is to start with the A-frame ( look terrible )
-But how will a body react to cut roof up and cut it in floor so remove the front end of the body ?

This body has been chopped not stacked up way back in time and the new floor is not installed on frame or jig.

Maybe it’s better sell it to someone that has own 1.000 hours.
But from others all this is not that hard to get done.
My idea is now to use several guys as to much work for 1 ( and they walk away from it.

Idea before I cut.

[3W Hank]

Main question is, if one ( me ) cant get it done, is a body like this to far gone to pay for it, and is it 200 hours or 800 hours.
Maybe best is throw it away ( get learning lession ) and get a better body or a complete car.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 3W Hank

My project was started out to find a 32 3W and I looked in Sweden but at that time no car or body was to find plus I heard cars sold was rather expensive.
I wanted to set out my style so a complete car did feel the wrong way ( maybe a big misstake…
One at Hamb in Alabama had a body with frame, 25 louver hood, grille etc at 40K and really a disaster.
I did look over a Brookvile body both complete or in parts as people warned me on.
I found a 3W in LA and again 25 louver hood and grille but no frame and it was 35K and friend had a look when he was theee, it was no floor and in that time after cowid it was hard get freight and freight was expensive so I said no.
I decided to go for a new 28 roadster instead as I had a 32 frame and some other parts.
After a car meet in Sweden I saw both a Henry 28 and a new made 28 body and I realised I cant has a new body, so I called them and got back my deposit.
Then a 5W showed up close to me.
It was a old race car from Texas so it came vis eBay to Sweden around 15-20
years ago and it was rustfree but floor was new as section and roof had a cutted out edge ( alu ) and firewall had the std end section rim off and they used a alu plate.
It was chopped ugly but its nice at 3”.
Owner here bought a new PU floor/subframe and find the firewall rim end part and it went to a guy install the floor.
It took 6 month to get the deal done.
I realised when car came to me it was no door gap and the old cut work would be hard to find a guy that can fix it.
Body was rather expensive but close ( 20 minutes drive ) but it was rust free Henry and even if I wanted a Henry floor it was nice see a fresh floor in it, doors and trunk, firewall, window garnish, seat frame, dash etc was included.
Now after some years go thrue all speed parts I like to use I pratically are there now to get the body done.
One guy promise me help out ( waited 1 year ) walked away but at + 70 I cant force him and another is 1.5 years away.
Most say this is a very nice body, but one told me its a terrible body, eorce he ever seen, and just to far off vs the old bad works, it should take him atleast 700 hours and he needed split up the whole body in parts (?)
Well, see it from that side, it was more easy for me get a old complete car ( early Ca hotrod ) or a Henry std 32 coupe.

Dont know how to do this but it seems to ’much’ for 1 guy handle this.
Me, I cant do it.
So, to sell it ?

But a idea.
Its a very ugly cut in roof and doors has no gap.
But the floor is nice and tight in the end of body but they needed get the holes wider at rear bolt to frame.
If ( rear ) if the body goes back foir gap will be Ok.
The firewall is now located correct in front to body but the subrail parts/holes dont match to the frame holes.
It might be no big deal get new holes.
I cant remove floor as it nice installed in the big picture and if I drill all weld spot up and remove the floor it will not be nice.
But look at picture of subrail, driver side gap is half vs on picture passanger side (?)

So my idea is to start with the A frame ( look terrible )
-But how will a body react to cut roof upp and cut it in floor so remove the front end of the body ?

This body has been chopped not stacked up way back in time and the new floor is not installed on frame or jigg.

Maybe its better sell it to some one has own 1.000 hours.
But from others all this is not that hard to get done.
My idea is now to use several guys, as to much and they walk away from it.

Idea before I cut.

[Ronnieroadster]

Hank your body is not that bad its certainly fixable. The photo of the lower cowl into the door opening is typical of work needed in bodies i have seen. Using a section of patch panels {Tom Bay brand} and original metal its fixable. With careful tig welding new metal along with some hand made pieces to the original metal and then using lead for the finished surface work not Bondo the body would look fine. Finding the person willing to do it where your located is certainly a problem.
On my three window the slight repairs the body needed I was able to get the work done by a good body guy exactly as I wrote above I did the lead work myself to finish the outer surface. With a bit of practice you may be able to do it yourself its not that hard.
Ronnieroadster

[glennpm]

First, please use a translator from Swedish to English, https://www.translate.com/swedish-english and then edit the results if required. For example I can't understand what this means, "its a very ugly cut in roof and doors has no gap.
But the floor is nice and tight in the end of body but they needed get the holes wider at rear bolt to frame. If ( rear ) if the body goes back foir gap will be Ok." Your posts are very difficult to understand and many won't bother to read them.

Second, your body can definitely be repaired as Ronnie has mentioned. It can be overwhelming, but doable if you work and repair a section at a time. You need to start with a square frame. Then, modify and fabricate replacement structure for mounting the body to correctly laid out mounting holes. Use bracing and diagonal dimensional verification to get the body straightened out. Welding in the floor is one of the last things you should do. You may have to remove it to get the body, firewall and door gaps set correctly.

Do as much of this work yourself if you are capable. Sending it to a shop may not give you the results you want and will cost a lot of money.

It can be done!

[alchemy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

This is not regular automotive crash repair stuff. You should only be talking with experienced restoration experts. If you want it square and the doors to have proper gaps, it will take someone who has done it before. And someone who is a 32 expert would be a huge jumpstart. They need to understand that everything is based off the firewall, and should use the proper gaskets in there while they are assembling the rest of the body to fit.

[deuce lover]

Hank, Like alchemy says you need to find someone with the skills and experience with 32 Ford's. Anybody in your country with the skills?

[Krylon32]

Hank: I have saved 3 5windows. I have never started with a body as nice as yours. I sent you pictures of my last one, was channeled with 2 sets of fender holes above the wheel wells, cowl vent welded shut, junk end panel and more. I've been blessed thru the years to have access to skilled metal men who have helped in my rescues. Look around, I'm certain there are skilled body repair men within driving distance. It'll probably be expensive? This body is not a throw away. Man Up, quit complaining, just get after it and get it done.

[3W Hank]

Thank's Krylon32 and Ron.
Good to hear there are always hope !

It's not to give it up, just if I should look for another body as this is 'nice' one in many ways to start a project like my ideas, but time vs money.
-That's why I did like to explain the situation on ideas.

There are many skilled people here in Sweden, but not that easy get it started and one told me ( seen 30 pictures ) that this is a junk car and get a UP body instead or a better core, and he thought at least for a starter this is 700 hours and it might be all cut up in pieces.
If our relation was not Ok ( in some way ) I could collect the parts and go home.
He could do max 25 hours/month so I thought if it’s so bad maybe jump off this body.
Most say it's a very nice body.
I has a buddy that will get this done but he is not yet ready yet, so I'm now after all parts I bought ( set my style ) is ready - so wait a year feels long.
I has no tools, no experience plus no time either to learn me.
And this guy has a hotrod shop and will get retired next year.

It's hard to describe the situation on the body and not be able on the correct language.

Its others guys/shops to but I like it pretty close and be 'able' to discuss how I like it.
If a shop it will cost ( no problem understand that ) but one need set it perspective on get another body instead.

[Krylon32]

The man that called your body junk is an idiot. Either he's dam slow or is gouging you. In looking at your body around here the small shops that do this kind of work are from $100-$125 an hour. Both the guys that do my work would out knock your body in about 100 hrs. My guys are almost 100 % metal finishers and use a minimal amount of filler and much of that is still lead. Things in Europe might be different from around here. Don't get me wrong we also have the $200+ dollar an hour shops around here but they have a very limited clientele of high rollers doing high 6 figure cars. Shop around, ask questions there has to some small shops in Europe that still do good honest work at reasonable prices. You definitely do not need a different body.

[3W Hank]

Yes it was an odd conversation and he mean if I really wanted to build my dream he would took it as a challenge ( 40 years in metal on old Fords )
Say I was doing that it would make no sense as better sell it and get a better body.
25 hours week is years vs at least 700 hours in it.
And the market & money is slow here on this cars now so I might got back fragments what I payed.
-So I must try see this positive.
The price total you talk about is realistic.
I asked my buddy on this what I got for 10K ( converted ) and he said allot.
We will start check frame in a jig and start get floor correct the roof and all smaller works related.
As he is close its great, but the time is a factor that’s why I was into the idea if several guys ( doing smaller works each )
I can get frame checked fast and I think this frame is really nice and know some of the history ( in a hotrod )
The gap on body/fuel tank is nice and the body is nice and tight over frame ( front/back ) but not over the curve of frame.
Then I was into cut the body ( as described ) as get it moved back to get the doors to 3/16” gap.
Then leave it out to others for help, but I guess I wait.

[alchemy]

You mention the fit of the floor to the frame curves. You are aware that the subrails are not supposed to fit tight to the frame behind the axle, right?

I think it’s a horrible idea to spread the job between multiple bodymen. If you do that, nobody will take “ownership” of it and anything wrong will be blamed on the other guy.

[3W Hank]

alchemy, you are most correct.
It was an idea.

Floor/frame.

[Krylon32]

Alchemy is right. Form a plan, work with your local shop so your on the same page. Make sure he knows your expectations and you know his. Find out what he expects for payment and how often. Don't be a pain in the butt by living at the body shop but don't let him shove your project off to the side. I've done a lot of this and with my guy I do 25% up front and divide up the payments until it's done. If I'm really needing it badly I offer a bonus if the job is done early. If they get it done early or on time I usually give them whether a body man or upholster a nice tip so when I need more work done the door is open. Unfortunately my best metal man is close to 80 like me and is retiring like me. I have used the same metal man for over 40 years and have had the luxury of not needing to ask how much in advance because he's always been fair. Good Luck.

[Bored&Stroked]

It it hard to tell body alignment issues in pictures, but from what I can tell you have a very good body to start with. As everyone noted, it really comes down to somebody with the right level of experience. I can't see that work taking more than a month or two (full-time hours) and you'll end up with exactly what you want. It is not a huge deal to work on the door gaps - can be handled a variety of ways (depending on the body man). Show us a picture of what you mean on the door gaps?

In the end, it is only metal . . it can be cut, shaped, formed . . . moved around, etc.. If a guy has a good straight frame, he has a great "jig" to work from.

[3W Hank]

Door gaps, well in this body I could hardly close the doors.
-I can't understand how one can install a new floor and not has a correct 'jig' or a Ok frame and leave it out with no 'gaps'..
So what I'mean with 'gap' its clearance on body and end of door.
Don't know how much one use in a hotrod before paint but maybe 3/16" ?

Guy sold me the body is a metal guy to ( but he did not do this work ) and he said it get better when its bolted down.
Rear side has no gap and the side where the door hangers has also no gap.

As body has been accid dipped and doors is removed I cant take pictures now on what I'mean.

[Krylon32]

Since I built my first deuce in 1973 I have always used a wooden paint stick as my gauge for hood, door and deck lid gaps. I have had the same stick hanging on my wall all these years. It's about 1/8 thick. Maybe with today's multi stage paints it might be a little tight but with the single stage paints I've always used it was fine. Many times door gap might just be an adjustment problem. Some bodies require some shimming. Don't worry about a gap at the last body mount hole at the back. All the deuces I've built over the years had about a 3/8th +or- gap there. A Henry Ford factory feature. I've seen original bodies that have never been off the frame and they had some king of hard rubber shim? Also I've never had to split the body to get proper door gap.

[3W Hank]

Checked body and door at same position, ca 706 mm ( both ) or 27.795" or door is tiny a hair wider than body.
The passanger side door at rear to body they chaved it off some, try fix this.
Still its no gap on front part where the door hangers are.
Shore this will be fixed.

The floor has not come correct over the frame holes.
Here is example the one at front of seat. Its miss near a full bolt diameter.
Thats why the gap on subrail to body is way to wide.

Its very odd someone had done this so wrong, as he must seen the gap there look terrible and one don't need a frame ( jig ) to see this was totally off.
Lets see what my buddy has to say about this 1-2 years from now.