Leakless water pump question….

[KMBeers]

Ok, I know this topic has been covered in a “bunch” of other times. I am getting ready to start my car after having the engine rebuilt (discussed in another thread), which included replacing the water pump. From Snyders, I chose the A-8502-A Leakless pump and the attached image is the instruction sheet that came with it. My question is does anyone have an image of the seam between the shaft and bushing? I want to know what to look for before I pump grease into thei pump because I have not had one of these apart before. Can I simply back the simulated packing nut out and look for the seam? Perhaps I am over thinking this but I am hoping the experts here on the forum can point me in the right direction.

[nkaminar]

Others may chime in, but I have never greased the rear bearing. On my waterpump it is sealed and permanently greased. I tried to grease it once but the hole to the bearing seems to be blocked. Call Snyder's for clarification.

[dansluck]

You should put a little grease thru the rear grease fitting. The brass fitting has a groove for grease and O-rings.
Dan

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Others may chime in, but I have never greased the rear bearing. On my waterpump it is sealed and permanently greased. I tried to grease it once but the hole to the bearing seems to be blocked. Call Snyder's for clarification.

I think this is the type of “leakless” that has a rear bushing and a lip seal behind it, not the type with the sealed rear bearing. On this one back off the packing nut completely to expose the front of the rear cartridge, then push maybe one small pump of grease into the bushing. If you see grease out the front, stop! If not, then another small pump and stop. Don’t push until you see grease, that may blow out the lip seal. I’ve rebuilt several water pumps using this replacement cartridge and they seem to work fine.

[Bob Bidonde]

Eventually the rear seal in the "Leakless Pump" is going to leak, and I find that adding a piece of split packing fixes the leak for some time. I must say however, that most of the leakless pumps on the market are a giant improvement in comparison to the hi-maintenance stock pumps I ran back in the 1960s and 1970s.

The key to a successful leakless water pump is a shaft restrained from fore-aft movement via a press fit modern front bearing. The collar fix is a band-aide and a nuisance. I am not a fan of the pump with a snap ring cut into its shaft.

I have also learned the hard way that coolant system stop leak sealers reduce the life of the seals in the Leakless pump. I also learned that anti-freeze lubricates and thus extends the life of the seals in the leakless pump.

[nkaminar]

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I read somewhere that the freeze protection of antifreeze is active for a long time but that the lubrication and antirust properties will dissipate over time. That was the reason the article said to change the antifreeze every 3 years. It also said that the modern antifreeze that is recommended for modern vehicles does not degrade as quickly and can be kept in the cooling system for much longer. The modern antifreeze should not be used in a Model A. I cannot remember why.

[rotorwrench]

The OEM pumps had no coolant water seal on the impeller side so the grease exited into the engine coolant passages. They recommended a low melting point grease so the radiator wouldn't gum up with grease. When they added the lip seals to the bushing then they sealed off the exit for grease. A lip type seal will never last as long as the carbon face seals used in more modern pumps but it will last for a while. When the lip seal fails, the grease can and will eventually be pushed into the cylinder head like the OEM pumps. The OEM pumps had a packing seal that was made from spongy lead rope in there to act as a packing and they would last for a longer time between packing nut adjustments but they didn't last forever either.

The OEM rear bushing has a groove and a hole in it to allow grease to get into the bushing with the cylinder head being the exit for grease as previously mentioned. The modern bushing is the same with exception to the lip seal or seals and the type of packing on the nut side. The packing in this case are two soft graphite washers that act as a dust seal. The packing nut has to be screwed out to provide the exit for the grease. If a person tightens the packing nut too tight then the grease can no longer exit so it can no longer be serviced until the rubber lip seal blows out. By that point, the pump will soon need an overhaul.

The rear bearing on the other type of sealed bearing pump has the bearing inside the packing part of the rear bushing but it is a sealed bearing that requires no grease unless the lip seals give out and coolant invades the bearing. In this case, the pump will leak. They just have a brass collar behind the packing nut to maintain the bearing position.

None of the various types of pumps are perfect. They all have there own types of problems when they fail.

[rotorwrench]

Repeat message.

[KMBeers]

Thanks guys for the input. Jayjay, I think you have the right method to greasing the rear bushing, so at Nkaminar’s suggestion, I reached out to Snyder’s to have it confirmed. I will keep everyone posted on what I get back from them.

[KMBeers]

I heard back from Snyder’s today. Here is what I asked:
Can you please confirm the procedure for greasing the rear bushing on the A-8502-A water pump? I purchased the pump a year ago and am just installing it now. After reading the lubrication instructions it seems the packing nut should be removed all the way, the two pieces of graphite packing showed be slid out so the way, and when he grease is added it should be just visible at the end of the bushing. Can you confirm and thank you?

The response was as follows:
Yes, your instructions are correct. To grease pump A-8502-A loosen the pack nut before greasing the impeller end of the pump, this will allow the grease to enter without building pressure which can damage the seals by the impeller. The grease fitting on the fan blade end of the pump does not get greased it is a sealed bearing.

So it looks like I know what I have and how to maintain it. Thanks everyone for the input and have a Merry Christmas!

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by KMBeers

I heard back from Snyder’s today. Here is what I asked:
Can you please confirm the procedure for greasing the rear bushing on the A-8502-A water pump? I purchased the pump a year ago and am just installing it now. After reading the lubrication instructions it seems the packing nut should be removed all the way, the two pieces of graphite packing showed be slid out so the way, and when he grease is added it should be just visible at the end of the bushing. Can you confirm and thank you?

The response was as follows:
Yes, your instructions are correct. To grease pump A-8502-A loosen the pack nut before greasing the impeller end of the pump, this will allow the grease to enter without building pressure which can damage the seals by the impeller. The grease fitting on the fan blade end of the pump does not get greased it is a sealed bearing.

So it looks like I know what I have and how to maintain it. Thanks everyone for the input and have a Merry Christmas!

Glad you got that sorted. And btw, that special grease fitting with the cap takes an “original” (straight side) grease fitting adapter on your grease gun. If every other fitting on your car has been replaced with a “modern” (bulbed) fitting you can easily unscrew the special fitting and replace it with a “modern” fitting so you don’t need two adapters to lube your car.

[KMBeers]

Thanks JayJay, I went the other way. About half of my grease fittings were new and the others were the old straight style so I have them all now converted to the old style in the interest of keeping things as “original” as possible. I’ve learned a lot since I started with this car so between help from the Barners, reading as much as I can on things, and help from the club members, my car is coming together.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by KMBeers

Thanks JayJay, I went the other way. About half of my grease fittings were new and the others were the old straight style so I have them all now converted to the old style in the interest of keeping things as “original” as possible. I’ve learned a lot since I started with this car so between help from the Barners, reading as much as I can on things, and help from the club members, my car is coming together.

I converted to modern Zerks because I have a grease gun fitting with a clamping head, making it a bunch easier to juggle things underneath the car.