Another No-Start

[MotownMachine]

Hi all,

My 'A' sat around for a few weeks while waiting for a friend to add a secondary fuel shutoff onto the fuel line. After reattaching the new line, the car fired right up. I backed it out of the garage, let it idle for a few minutes and shut it off again so I could get some work done on the roof.

A couple of hours later the car would not start, and it has not started since.

I have gone through the motions with the electrics, and cannot find anything wrong in that department. Every now and then one or two pistons will fire, but that is it. The only noticeable symptom I have is that after turning over, there is fuel leaking out from both the throttle plate assembly and what I assume is the small hole between the jets and the choke plate.

I have taken the bottom of the Zenith carb off and do not notice anything out of the ordinary. My main jet tip is not, and has never been dished as long as I have owned the car, which does usually leak a little, but only after the car has been shut off.

Any ideas? Thanks

[Kurt in NJ]

Perhaps the car is afraid of the changes to its garage roof!
For no starts I work from the carburetor side, reach across the top of the engine to operate starter—- if I lay my arm on the top of the cap it is easy to know if there is spark ⚡️!
Does the rotor turn when the engine turns over?
What do the spark plugs look like? Wet with fuel, black with carbon and fouled —- dry front no fuel?
Are there modifications from original?

[ArtimusGordon]

Does your ammeter wiggle when you try to start the car? If it does I would then see if you get a spark from the coil wire to a head bolt!

[MotownMachine]

Hi,

The rotor does turn, and appears to be at the right height. My plugs were all gunged up, and I thought that might be the culprit, but I took them out and gave them a good cleaning with the wire brush ... to no effect.

No major modifications on the electrical side, just some small stuff to prevent shorts

[MotownMachine]

Originally Posted by ArtimusGordon

Does your ammeter wiggle when you try to start the car? If it does I would then see if you get a spark from the coil wire to a head bolt!

I don't think my ammeter has ever done the wiggle, oddly. But I did test the coil and wire and points in conjunction and they sparked normally

[jg61hawk]

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I see your post number is low....Do you know how to test for spark by simply using a screwdriver touching the head and holding it a very small distance from the spark plug wire?...You are looking for a spark to jump the small gap. Or remove a plug, be sure it is grounded to the head by the threads and watch for spark. So assume you have spark....Shut off the gas and use a little spray starting fluid to see if it fires. If you have no spark start by looking under the cap and see if the points are opening...then with the key on make them open...see if they spark....are they dirty....a simple little swipe with 2000 sand paper can't hurt.

[Kurt in NJ]

Wire brushing the electrode area can short out plugs because of metal transfer to the porcelain .

[eagle]

There are three things to look at first. #1 Spark, easy test: lift a couple of the spark plug straps, bend so they clear the plug tops by 1/8 inch or so, crank engine, should be a nice hot snap. #2 Fuel, first check and clean spark plugs if necessary. Then choke well while cranking. Remove plugs, are they wet? Did gas come out of the back of the carb when choking? Dry plugs, put back in, try starting again with no choke. If still no fire then it's time to check compression. Thumb over spark plug hole is a quick and easy test, compression guage is better. One thing of absolute importance: DON'T start changing out parts until you know what is bad! You'll end up introducing more issues than what you started with. Also, if the timing was good when it stopped, it's still good, don't mess with it. If you have spark, it's NOT the condenser. FYI, the first thing I'd suspect, with your desciption of running well then not re-starting is flooded. If this is the case lifting the spark straps will help to clear the plugs too.

[ronn]

did your buddy use pipe dope on the secondary fuel shut off?

[nkaminar]

Try new plugs. Check the points gap, should be 0.020 when fully open. Buy a clear distributor cap so that you can see if the sparks are getting to each electrode in the distributor housing. Measure resistance between the two points when they are closed, should be close to zero. If not, file or sand points with 400 grit wet and dry paper folded in half. If sanding, clean points afterward by sliding cardboard through the closed points.

The wiring was changed halfway through the Model A production so that the ammeter would register current through the ignition system. Consult the Service Bulletins for how to update your wiring.

[jeepguy1948]

I’m not saying this is your problem but it might be worth a try. More times than I can count, I have had a “no start” situation and could simply not find anything wrong (I have had this happen with lawn mowers, outboard motors, generators, chainsaws, and a number of other engines as well as car engines. If the fuel is less than fresh it is impossible to find it with all the normal tests. The engine will run fine if you can get it started. A little starting fluid, carb cleaner, brake cleaner can get it started and then all is normal. It is astounding how often starting problems come out of nowhere, for example you back the car out, shut it off, a short time later it won’t start. Makes no sense but it happens a lot.

[Dino's A]

Did you check out the condenser?

[nkaminar]

Dino has a good observation. A car will not start with a bad condensor but may fire on one or two cylinders. To test the condensor, put your multimeter on the ohm setting. Try 1,000 ohms but try different settings. A healthy condensor will indicate low resistance when it first starts to charge up and then an open circuit when it is charged. Test it again by switching the leads.

[burner31]

Maybe something off about that 2nd shutoff valve, gravity feed may not be enough to push thru valve, top off your fuel tank and/or remove that 2nd valve.
Just a thought from left field.

[GPierce]

I had a friend experience a no start after driving several miles and turning off the engine.
He forgot which way you turn the fuel valve to turn it on. He was trying to start it with the valve off.

[nkaminar]

Who among us has not done that?

[Big hammer]

YEP it happens ! Careful with the distributor rotor it can come up missing !

[old31]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Who among us has not done that?

Who me? No, never.

[MotownMachine]

Hi all, thanks for your suggestions. Went to test the plugs this morning operating the starter by hand. Pulled the first plug strap, hit the starter and BOOM! chugga-chugga-chugga-chugga... with no choke, gas off, and on idle the engine started immediately and ran for about five seconds until whatever must have been leftover in the carb ran out.

I reattached the strap and tried to repeat this from the cab, and sure enough - no choke, gas on idle the car started and ran, albeit with hesitation. The engine stays running as long as the fuel is on, but instead of the steady 1-2-3-4 beat it is more of a 1-2, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4.

I tried to adjust the timing and GAV to smooth it out, but to no avail. If you shut the gas off and wait a five seconds or so, it returns to its regular steady beat. If you push down on the accelerator, you do get power but it sounds like it's sucking in way more air than it should.

Any suggestions on this? Thanks

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by GPierce

I had a friend experience a no start after driving several miles and turning off the engine.
He forgot which way you turn the fuel valve to turn it on. He was trying to start it with the valve off.

And I laughed when I saw this magnet in Snyder's Catalog. Maybe there is a need for it after all?



https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9342&cat=41707